Xbox 360 is "fully 3D capable", claims Xbox product manager, Aaron Greenberg.
Speaking to G4TV at CES last week - no-doubt surrounded by an army of 3D-enabled televisions and indeed, PlayStation 3 games arriving this year - Greenberg said, "as consumer interest for 3D grows, we'll grow with it.
"From the technical standpoint, we are fully 3D capable. We have 3D games running today," he added. "I think right now we're unsure what level of interest there is from consumers to really want a 3D experience in the living room. Many, many years from now when it becomes a reality, we absolutely can support it, we do support it today. If developers want to make more 3D games, they can."
Greenberg made reference to '3D' XBLA game Scrap Metal, which uses old 3D glasses tech rather than the new breed used in films such as Avatar.
Unexpectedly, the Xbox man would rather see developers experimenting with technology such as Natal: "I think 3D is a great experience in the theater and I thought Avatar was fantastic, but there's a lot of challenges about 3D in the living room," he said.
"I don't know about you, but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather and it's...I'm not in a dark theater, wearing glasses, staring at a screen. I think it's just a different environment."
Frankly, after playing Arkham Asylum and Resident Evil 5 on PC in 3D, we absolutely demand our console games jump on board this summer (and rubbish red and blue specs don't count).
"...but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather"
Well there ya have it kids... home 3D will never take off because you have a phone, and you get up and you 'get down' (dancing perhaps?) and need to check the weather.
In the history of gaming, TVs, technology, phones, chairs, dancing and humanity, has an excuse for something not becoming popular ever been so well thought out?
I'm no fan of 3D and have no interest in it, but if I had been, well, after reading what the Microsoft Einstein has said, I'd be a devout 3D hater forever more. It's not difficult to see how Microsoft came up with the idea of flailing arms as a means to control a game!
"...but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather"
Well there ya have it kids... home 3D will never take off because you have a phone, and you get up and you 'get down' (dancing perhaps?) and need to check the weather.
In the history of gaming, TVs, technology, phones, chairs, dancing and humanity, has an excuse for something not becoming popular ever been so well thought out?
I'm no fan of 3D and have no interest in it, but if I had been, well, after reading what the Microsoft Einstein has said, I'd be a devout 3D hater forever more. It's not difficult to see how Microsoft came up with the idea of flailing arms as a means to control a game!
Current 3D technology is a bitch. It's just not very good unless you're in the right conditions and sitting still.
As much as I think Natal will fail, I bet someone could use 3D tech and Natal together in a really good way. Even as Im typing this, I think those two things would go together very, very well.
As much as I think Natal will fail, I bet someone could use 3D tech and Natal together in a really good way. Even as Im typing this, I think those two things would go together very, very well.
Another "Me too! Me too!" comment from the MS execs... the 360 was "fully HD capable" too if I recall. What happened to the HD-DVD add-on again?
If the PS3 didn't have blu-ray, HD-DVD would still be with us today and I'm sure the 360 add-on would be enjoying a nice life. The balance of the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray war was tipped in favour of Blu-ray the second PS3 came to the market, but before that HD-DVD was on top. 3D is not even the asme thing, it has no rival and also there are a lot of 3D compatable TV's already out there. Any HDTV that has a refresh rate of 120mhz or above is compatable with 3D.
Unexpectedly, the Xbox man would rather see developers experimenting with technology such as Natal
I don't understand why Microsoft don't use Natal to introduce 'Head tracking' which gives the illusion of a 3D effect without the need to upgrade TV's, current technology, or wear any eyewear/headwear. It also works for those with vision in only one eye. Check out the videos below. Even on YouTube you get the depth of field and floating object illusion.
Head Tracking demo 1
Head Tracking demo 2
If this was introduced then new games could just have an option to play with the use of Natal running in the background. It would simply adjust the in-game camera depending on the angle and position of your head. No tinted glasses or polarised shades and no double image required! For gaming it makes perfect sense!
Don't give a monkeys about gaming or watching movies in 3D. We're all going to end up looking like morons, umping around with our motion controllers wearing big 3D glasses in front of displays that nobody else can even focus on. Great stuff for a gaming system they recently tried to make more "family friendly".
Well, maybe other people will. If motion controls and 3D become standard across the platforms I won't be buying into it. Long live PC gaming, which has never tried to force users to get in on trends and has somehow managed to survive for 30 years.
I don't understand why Microsoft don't use Natal to introduce 'Head tracking' which gives the illusion of a 3D effect without the need to upgrade TV's, current technology, or wear any eyewear/headwear.
a) How do you know they aren't doing that? b) That guy now works at Microsoft. On the Natal team...
I think Eclipse has the right idea... with head tracking we can get up, get down, get to the window and check on the weather, and the game will change view for us. If only someone would invent a TV that follows you around the room.
I'm going to buy Natal if giving my Xbox the middle finger switches it off! Combined with voice recognition I can think of several ways of turning my Xbox off. Pressing buttons is so old-school.
Dajmin,
Are you trying to tell me you don't want to join the new evolution in gaming... I call it the Harry Potty effect... where we all wear glasses and wave our hands around and something remarkably unmagical happens on our overpriced 3D TVs!?
I think Eclipse has the right idea... with head tracking we can get up, get down, get to the window and check on the weather, and the game will change view for us. If only someone would invent a TV that follows you around the room.
I'm going to buy Natal if giving my Xbox the middle finger switches it off! Combined with voice recognition I can think of several ways of turning my Xbox off. Pressing buttons is so old-school.
I don't understand why Microsoft don't use Natal to introduce 'Head tracking' which gives the illusion of a 3D effect without the need to upgrade TV's, current technology, or wear any eyewear/headwear.
a) How do you know they aren't doing that? b) That guy now works at Microsoft. On the Natal team...
I hope you are right and Microsoft have chosen this route. I know PS3 have done some work in this area too, and I can honestly see this going mainstream. The video below proves it can work with no eye-wear or head-wear) and also shows how subtle movements can be enhanced on screen.
No headwear demo
0:40 onwards demonstrates how little movement is needed
so you can still play using your standard pad and sit on your sofa, no exaggerated movements are needed. Those that didn't want to use it could play the same game in regular 2D (Natal would simply be an extra set-up option in the menu)
I don't understand why Microsoft don't use Natal to introduce 'Head tracking' which gives the illusion of a 3D effect without the need to upgrade TV's, current technology, or wear any eyewear/headwear.
a) How do you know they aren't doing that? b) That guy now works at Microsoft. On the Natal team...
I hope you are right and Microsoft have chosen this route. I know PS3 have done some work in this area too, and I can honestly see this going mainstream. The video below proves it can work with no eye-wear or head-wear) and also shows how subtle movements can be enhanced on screen.
No headwear demo
0:40 onwards demonstrates how little movement is needed
so you can still play using your standard pad and sit on your sofa, no exaggerated movements are needed. Those that didn't want to use it could play the same game in regular 2D (Natal would simply be an extra set-up option in the menu)
Having the screen as a portion of your view where moving your head side to side rotates the on-screen camera is a terrible idea in my opinion. It breaks reality since your head is moving but your eyes have to stay looking straight forward. That's how TrackIR works, and I really don't get on with that sort of system.
However, using your screen as a "window" into the game world, where if you move your head to the left and look right you can see around the right-hand side of the screen where you couldn't see before - that's where the benefit lies, and it's that I hope to see in shooters. That's the sort of thing Johnny Lee developed and I hope is something that Microsoft are developing as one of the standard toolset for devs making games for Natal.
If Epic could incorporate that type of 3D view for Gears 3, where you explore the screen as if it's a window into the game with all the zooming and 3D effects, but still keep your controller as the thing that aims - that will be where 3D gaming will work very well. No stupid glasses, no hat or anything required to track your head position and no limitation on screen specifications.
If I had a 60" 3D Tv, I might see the point of 3D at home. Right now though it just seems like a rather pointless gimmick, maybe it'll come fruition in future generations of consoles, but I can't see 3D at home really catching on for another 3-5 years.
Natal also seems like a waste of time and resources though.
There's a bunch of games I think it'll be fun to see... the head tracking stuff sure, hope I can duck out the way of incoming fire in an FPS some time.
Then you have Dance Stage style games ... but way more fun, no need for those floor pads, can do all sorts of arm movements, big fish little fish cardboard box, etc.
Air Guitar Hero is a must-have, as is Air Drum Hero!
Anyone remember Knightmare from Children's TV years back? Natal + 3D tech would make that kinda fun
Hmm wonder if they could make Natal Track+Field too, running fast on the spot etc.
I think Eclipse has the right idea... with head tracking we can get up, get down, get to the window and check on the weather, and the game will change view for us. If only someone would invent a TV that follows you around the room.
Pressing buttons is so old-school.
If you watched any of the videos or bothered to read my posts you would be aware that (a) you can still use your standard pad and therefore buttons and (b) that you can still sit on your a$$ and it can detect the smallest of head movements, which happen naturally anyway. I guess the real beauty of Head Tracking is that closed-minded people like you can continue to play without activating it, so in your world nothing will change.
We're all going to end up looking like morons, umping around with our motion controllers wearing big 3D glasses in front of displays that nobody else can even focus on.
Head Tracking = NO Jumping/Flapping/Flailing around, NO need for motion controllers - continue using your 360/PS3 pad, No glasses or head-wear and NO double image on screen!
"I don't know about you, but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather and it's...I'm not in a dark theater, wearing glasses, staring at a screen. I think it's just a different environment."
I agree with Aaron Greenberg on this particular point. I watched "Avatar" yesterday and I joked with my friend that we looked like the Petshop Boys wearing those fairly solid plastic 3D glasses. The set I got kept sliding down my nose, it wasn't painful yet it certainly wasn't comfortable and light as air either! My eyes also became irritated after a while. If gaming 3D is going to be like that then I foresee the amount of time I play in uninterrupted bursts decreasing dramatically. Still, it's a neat visual experience.
"...but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather"
Well there ya have it kids... home 3D will never take off because you have a phone, and you get up and you 'get down' (dancing perhaps?) and need to check the weather.
In the history of gaming, TVs, technology, phones, chairs, dancing and humanity, has an excuse for something not becoming popular ever been so well thought out?
I'm no fan of 3D and have no interest in it, but if I had been, well, after reading what the Microsoft Einstein has said, I'd be a devout 3D hater forever more. It's not difficult to see how Microsoft came up with the idea of flailing arms as a means to control a game!
Current 3D technology is a bitch. It's just not very good unless you're in the right conditions and sitting still.
"...but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather"
Well there ya have it kids... home 3D will never take off because you have a phone, and you get up and you 'get down' (dancing perhaps?) and need to check the weather.
In the history of gaming, TVs, technology, phones, chairs, dancing and humanity, has an excuse for something not becoming popular ever been so well thought out?
I'm no fan of 3D and have no interest in it, but if I had been, well, after reading what the Microsoft Einstein has said, I'd be a devout 3D hater forever more. It's not difficult to see how Microsoft came up with the idea of flailing arms as a means to control a game!
Current 3D technology is a bitch. It's just not very good unless you're in the right conditions and sitting still.
Agreed.
I can't imagine that 3DTV is going to improve that, to be honest. As you say, gaming sessions will certainly be cut short. I'd be happy to play a psuedo-3D game via headtracking for just as long as I play now, seeing that it's not trying to force a different image into each eye.
Having the screen as a portion of your view where moving your head side to side rotates the on-screen camera is a terrible idea in my opinion. It breaks reality since your head is moving but your eyes have to stay looking straight forward. That's how TrackIR works, and I really don't get on with that sort of system.
However, using your screen as a "window" into the game world, where if you move your head to the left and look right you can see around the right-hand side of the screen where you couldn't see before - that's where the benefit lies, and it's that I hope to see in shooters. That's the sort of thing Johnny Lee developed and I hope is something that Microsoft are developing as one of the standard toolset for devs making games for Natal.
If Epic could incorporate that type of 3D view for Gears 3, where you explore the screen as if it's a window into the game with all the zooming and 3D effects, but still keep your controller as the thing that aims - that will be where 3D gaming will work very well. No stupid glasses, no hat or anything required to track your head position and no limitation on screen specifications.
I understand what you're saying about TrackerIR and clearly Johnny Lee's tech is far more impressive. I was just using it as an example to those that don't want to be leaning, ducking and moving around - just sat on their backside on the sofa.
The "window" into a 3D environment is a great illusion and I think pretty much any genre of games would benefit from it. Not just FPS games, but even as you said, 3rd person games like Gears/Assassin's Creed/Mass Effect would all be 'enhanced' by this tech! Mass Effect could even make use of the voice recognition too. These small changes can help immerse your experience without shoehorning in unnecessary motion controls!
I think Eclipse has the right idea... with head tracking we can get up, get down, get to the window and check on the weather, and the game will change view for us. If only someone would invent a TV that follows you around the room.
Pressing buttons is so old-school.
If you watched any of the videos or bothered to read my posts you would be aware that (a) you can still use your standard pad and therefore buttons and (b) that you can still sit on your a$$ and it can detect the smallest of head movements, which happen naturally anyway. I guess the real beauty of Head Tracking is that closed-minded people like you can continue to play without activating it, so in your world nothing will change.
We're all going to end up looking like morons, umping around with our motion controllers wearing big 3D glasses in front of displays that nobody else can even focus on.
Head Tracking = NO Jumping/Flapping/Flailing around, NO need for motion controllers - continue using your 360/PS3 pad, No glasses or head-wear and NO double image on screen!
Fu*ks sake dude, calm down. I was being S A R C A S T I C . Could you really not see that in my first message? Call me close minded for not being particularly interested in 3D but I've not even suggested an opinion on headtracking. I have no idea why you're so upset and feel the need to be abusive. You having a bad day or something? Discuss or argue the merits of headtracking and it's use in future games with someone who cares. I don't really have an opinion on it other than it looks clever and interesting.
It's the single most important addition Natal could bring to all genres as far as I'm concerned. Any game that has a 3D engine: racers, fps, tps, strategy, platform, sports, arcade would benefit from this.
I think Eclipse has the right idea... with head tracking we can get up, get down, get to the window and check on the weather, and the game will change view for us. If only someone would invent a TV that follows you around the room.
I'm going to buy Natal if giving my Xbox the middle finger switches it off! Combined with voice recognition I can think of several ways of turning my Xbox off. Pressing buttons is so old-school.
Dajmin,
Are you trying to tell me you don't want to join the new evolution in gaming... I call it the Harry Potty effect... where we all wear glasses and wave our hands around and something remarkably unmagical happens on our overpriced 3D TVs!?
This guy is talking nonsense, 360 isn't fully compatible with newer 3D tech, old spec probably, but the new tech won't work for it. Who cares though, 3D movie are dumb. I watched the entire Avatar a few days ago, the only reason for the 3D glasses were to keep the image sharp, the 3D visuals we're all that spectacular, you get that Viewtiful Joe look when something pops off the screen and nothing else on screen does the same. I left said movie with a headache because action scenes in 3D are a pain in the ass. Sony needs to leave that crap alone until they actually get holograms working, 3D on conventional projection technology is still lacking, and not to mention headache inducing.
As for MS guy, these guys blatantly lie about stuff, then when you get the full explanation you get they werent talking about the stuff you were actually thinking about. I hate to hear these guys sometimes.
Anyone remember Knightmare from Children's TV years back? Natal + 3D tech would make that kinda fun
OMFG, yes! Now that is an idea I could get into! You wouldn't find me picking up the cheese on level 2 only to find a goblin on level 4 who wants the key that you foolishly left behind! Its never the food, there is always plenty of food, pick up the f**king key for f**ks sake!
Xbox 360 is "fully 3D capable", claims Xbox product manager, Aaron Greenberg.
That's nice, it'd be interesting to know when exactly Microsoft upgraded the installed HDMI hardware inside all our Xbox 360s without informing us?
I'm feeling that it sort of defeats the point of producing stereoscopic 3D images on a console if you have no way of getting a stereoscopic 3D images from your console to your TV.
Xbox 360 is "fully 3D capable", claims Xbox product manager, Aaron Greenberg.
That's nice, it'd be interesting to know when exactly Microsoft upgraded the installed HDMI hardware inside all our Xbox 360s without informing us?
I'm feeling that it sort of defeats the point of producing stereoscopic 3D images on a console if you have no way of getting a stereoscopic 3D images from your console to your TV.
The 3DTV standard is limited to HDMI 1.3 or higher. Xbox 360 has HDMI 1.2 as standard, but the update from 1.1 to 1.2 and 1.3 is purely software, so it can be updated to 1.3 as part of a seasonal update.
1) they still seem to be using them red and blue lensed glasses
2) 3d has been around for 50 years or so
3) i watched 3d films on a vhs machine and a really crap 50htz colour crt tv in the 80's (i was very young)
4) i had a sega master system with 3d glasses, the flickering lens type one
5) i remember a video from 80's or early 90's that adamski or maybe seal did that was in that polarised 3d system
6) so why the heck is it so damn hard to do 3d on the latest hardware we currently own? why do i need a stupidly priced tv?? why does a ps3 or xbox need an upgrade or what ever???
WHY?
SO THEY CAN SELL YOU MORE OVERPRICED TAT NON OF US ACTUALLY NEED - BUT ALL YOU FOOLS WILL GO OUT AND BUY IT, SO EVENTUALITY, EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE FORCED TO UPGRADE AS WELL.
1) they still seem to be using them red and blue lensed glasses
2) 3d has been around for 50 years or so
3) i watched 3d films on a vhs machine and a really crap 50htz colour crt tv in the 80's (i was very young)
4) i had a sega master system with 3d glasses, the flickering lens type one
5) i remember a video from 80's or early 90's that adamski or maybe seal did that was in that polarised 3d system
6) so why the heck is it so damn hard to do 3d on the latest hardware we currently own? why do i need a stupidly priced tv?? why does a ps3 or xbox need an upgrade or what ever???
WHY?
SO THEY CAN SELL YOU MORE OVERPRICED TAT NON OF US ACTUALLY NEED - BUT ALL YOU FOOLS WILL GO OUT AND BUY IT, SO EVENTUALITY, EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE FORCED TO UPGRADE AS WELL.
goddamn
Take it easy my friend. Updates are free for the PS3 and 360. 120Hz tv's are not that expensive, certainly not as expensive as when LCD's first hit the market. By the time 3D takes off that 120Hz will be as low priced as a comparable 60Hz is now. Forced to get what a 3D capable TV? Lol, too many gamers out there content with what they have now, and it's going to be years before they need a new set. LCD's have a pretty good life expectancy rate. Relax my friend, no need to worry about all this talk, enjoy the stuff you have now, for it will be around a wee bit longer than you think.
'Take it easy my friend. Updates are free for the PS3 and 360. 120Hz tv's are not that expensive, certainly not as expensive as when LCD's first hit the market. By the time 3D takes off that 120Hz will be as low priced as a comparable 60Hz is now. Forced to get what a 3D capable TV? Lol, too many gamers out there content with what they have now, and it's going to be years before they need a new set. LCD's have a pretty good life expectancy rate. Relax my friend, no need to worry about all this talk, enjoy the stuff you have now, for it will be around a wee bit longer than you think.'
- oh right 120htz tvs, great so why we gonna need 440htz or whatever??
and those 3d tvs are coming out this year! lcd tvs haven't been out that long and you'd be hard pressed to find a new crt tv nowdays, progress mate, have us uk people got a choice wheather we do the digital switch over? no, it is forced on you like most things, so just because i want to play the latest game shouldnt mean i have to buy a 5 grand tv or something should it, its just an opinion, one that the "poor to not as well off as the middle class" majority sector of this planet probably has
The 3DTV standard is limited to HDMI 1.3 or higher. Xbox 360 has HDMI 1.2 as standard, but the update from 1.1 to 1.2 and 1.3 is purely software, so it can be updated to 1.3 as part of a seasonal update.
oh right 120htz tvs, great so why we gonna need 440htz or whatever??
and those 3d tvs are coming out this year! lcd tvs haven't been out that long and you'd be hard pressed to find a new crt tv nowdays, progress mate, have us uk people got a choice wheather we do the digital switch over? no, it is forced on you like most things, so just because i want to play the latest game shouldnt mean i have to buy a 5 grand tv or something should it, its just an opinion, one that the "poor to not as well off as the middle class" majority sector of this planet probably has
Wait slow down, 120hz TV are sufficient to run 3D, these TV's have been on the market most of last year. Why would anyone want to go out and buy a CRT TV is beyond me, LCD's come in many sizes, are much easier to move around and have a much better picture. My LCD is 3 years old 42" and is 66lbs, find me a CRT that size and that light. 5 Grand for a television, how big is that TV? Must be the all weather models. You don't need to buy anything to play the latest video games as PS3/360 and Wii work on every TV with RCA inputs. No one has a choice in the switch over from analog to digital, if you want to continue viewing programs upgrade or use a convertor box simple. Digital signal use was decided on by the big nations many years ago, it's how things work in this world. But technology is only really expensive when it's first introduced as with LCD's. It's not hard to find one suitable for you at a reasonable and affordable price, if you can afford that PS3/360 then you can afford an LCD.
oh right 120htz tvs, great so why we gonna need 440htz or whatever??
and those 3d tvs are coming out this year! lcd tvs haven't been out that long and you'd be hard pressed to find a new crt tv nowdays, progress mate, have us uk people got a choice wheather we do the digital switch over? no, it is forced on you like most things, so just because i want to play the latest game shouldnt mean i have to buy a 5 grand tv or something should it, its just an opinion, one that the "poor to not as well off as the middle class" majority sector of this planet probably has
Wait slow down, 120hz TV are sufficient to run 3D, these TV's have been on the market most of last year. Why would anyone want to go out and buy a CRT TV is beyond me, LCD's come in many sizes, are much easier to move around and have a much better picture. My LCD is 3 years old 42" and is 66lbs, find me a CRT that size and that light. 5 Grand for a television, how big is that TV? Must be the all weather models. You don't need to buy anything to play the latest video games as PS3/360 and Wii work on every TV with RCA inputs. No one has a choice in the switch over from analog to digital, if you want to continue viewing programs upgrade or use a convertor box simple. Digital signal use was decided on by the big nations many years ago, it's how things work in this world. But technology is only really expensive when it's first introduced as with LCD's. It's not hard to find one suitable for you at a reasonable and affordable price, if you can afford that PS3/360 then you can afford an LCD.
oh right 120htz tvs, great so why we gonna need 440htz or whatever??
and those 3d tvs are coming out this year! lcd tvs haven't been out that long and you'd be hard pressed to find a new crt tv nowdays, progress mate, have us uk people got a choice wheather we do the digital switch over? no, it is forced on you like most things, so just because i want to play the latest game shouldnt mean i have to buy a 5 grand tv or something should it, its just an opinion, one that the "poor to not as well off as the middle class" majority sector of this planet probably has
Wait slow down, 120hz TV are sufficient to run 3D, these TV's have been on the market most of last year. Why would anyone want to go out and buy a CRT TV is beyond me, LCD's come in many sizes, are much easier to move around and have a much better picture. My LCD is 3 years old 42" and is 66lbs, find me a CRT that size and that light. 5 Grand for a television, how big is that TV? Must be the all weather models. You don't need to buy anything to play the latest video games as PS3/360 and Wii work on every TV with RCA inputs. No one has a choice in the switch over from analog to digital, if you want to continue viewing programs upgrade or use a convertor box simple. Digital signal use was decided on by the big nations many years ago, it's how things work in this world. But technology is only really expensive when it's first introduced as with LCD's. It's not hard to find one suitable for you at a reasonable and affordable price, if you can afford that PS3/360 then you can afford an LCD.
I agree for the most part with what you have typed above, and yet CRT TVs still reproduce a faithful colour set better than most modern TVs today despite being 50-some-odd years old technology. I expect that will eventually change yet it just goes to show that not all aspects of new technology are automatically better.
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couldnt resist tht one.
