Share this article: Digg.comFacebookGoogle BookmarksN4GGamerblipsdel.icio.usRedditSlashdot.orgStumbleUpon Dues Ex again. Yawn. These Top 101 and Top 100 lists are becoming too predictable! ez_dude what would be your top 3?
soooooooooo happy to see vice city in there at 11 :D
the amount of arguments ive been involved in for stating that VC is the better GTA game Hmmm.. i personally dont think that GTA is deserving of such a high spot, especially on the PC.
Deus Ex is a great game, no doubt, and worthy of the top 10, probably top 5, but I still prefer Half Life 2 for pure action. Lol, my brother and I dispute this point often.
Least Oblivion wasnt number one, like PCG's latest top 100. It isn't all that great.... My own top ten would be....(Drum roll)
10) Populous The Beginning 9) Total Annihilation 8 ) C&C Red Alert 2 7) Carmageddon 6) Starcraft 5) Half Life 4) Far Cry 3) The Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion 2) Half Life 2 1) Rome Total War No One Lives Forever 1, one of the greatest games ever made, and far outshadows the 2nd, isn't in the top 101. Sad. Just sad. ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!
talking about the places the games came I can only agree with one in that entire list, deus ex. I am sure that from reading the comments on the starcraft articles diablo will be a vastly unpopular choice on these forums, especially coming above starcraft. Worst. List. Ever.
To all PC Zone staff: Go home, take a long hard look in the mirror, then consider why you are alive.
You'll know what to do next. 3: Max Payne (PC) 2: Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2) 1: Half Life 2 (PC)
All these games i think became the new "Benchmark" when they came out. There were no comparisons, but countless clones. (Bullet-time, Sandbox and FPS respectively.) They without a doubt all changed the face of gaming.
And a special mention to Pre-CU SWG!! /cry glad to see morrowind above oblivion for once, oblivion being the ******* step child of morrowind. all i wanted from oblivion was to have a world roughly the same but with the same functionality plus some additions to it such as being able to use all the items you can pick up. pouring liquids into jugs, painting with brushes, fishing with fishing rods etc maybe keeping pets like guars or designing your own house. instead all they did was up the graphics and reduce the world to a console friendly fantasy romp by putting towns inside walls and disallowing flying. i remember being able to jump half way across balmora after 100 hours or so gameplay. on oblivion the jumping skill (acrobatics) was completely obsolete with no difference between level 5 profficiency and level 100 profficiency. 8) Ah...Operation Flashpoint - fully deserving of the spot in the top 25 PC games ever! I remember that game when it first came out, utterly incredible at the time. :lol: I knew there were a lot of geeks on here but come on... Everyone's going to disagree with at least a few games in that list, to be honest I'm not sure why people bother making these lists. All that happens is a load of people come on and say stupid crap, *Puts on geek voice* "Where are the works of Kutagi-san? Why isn't a game that no one's heard of and is incredibly niche at number 1?"
I disgree with some of those positions but it was an entertaining read. Good job PC Zone team. I would have placed BF2 closer to the number 1 spot, i dont think ive played 300+ hours on anything and still have fun Deus Ex deserves to be #1, it hasn't been matched since. At least Half-life 2 wasn't #1. NOLF 2, H&D 2 and Splinter Cell all should have been in the Top 50 IMO. I was plesantly surprised to see Vampire: Bloodlines as high as it was. Neverwinter Nights was too high. I have never played Dexus ex and for all thopse winning about the choices, make one yoursevels and see how easy it is. Its impossible to please everyone. what...no theme hospital :/
my top 5
5)Grim Fandango 4)Homeworld 3)Max Payne 2 2)Deus ex 1)System Shock 2 Im not much of a pc player - ninty fanboi etc. etc. - but still, having played World of warcraft, i would have thought it would have been higher up - even if just for being able talk to bilions of people, dance naked on post boxes, and rides wolves. but ah well... who'd listen to a lonely noob like me? in no specific order.....
Worms World Party Max Payne 2 FEAR Vice City GTR2 splinter cell: chaos theory mafia manhunt beyond good & evil line rider
thats 10 of 'em :D
theres probably a few more, but these seem to be the games i can happily install anytime & still enjoy over & over. Nobody. Nobody at all. I'd like to give a shout out for Sensible Soccer. One of the most playable games I've ever played. This list is shit, I won't say much more because it would take an essay to name everything that's wrong with it. A generic, short and flawed FPS that didn't even reach its prequel in quality and value being on number 2 is a good first indication though. Deus Ex is one of the few things good about it, though I wouldn't set it to number 1. The list also lacks worthy indie titles, especially since it names generic recent crap to fill the space that should be taken up by actual quality. Deus Ex is an amazing game, and deserved NO.1 place. Half Life 2 was a big let down though, don't know why it's at No.2! Still haven't got past the Statue of Liberty level I don't think. Must play it at some point I guess. Football Manager? Are you serious?! :x That piece of software does not deserve to appear next to the other titles on this list. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously now?
You have a list of mostly great games there, marvels of storytelling, interactivity and engineering... Next to Football Manager. Football f**king Manager?! No story, no interactivity, and about 3 minutes worth of engineering. You people are at least supposed to know what an actual game is comprised of, and Football Manager doesn't even come close.
It is an appreciation of football, not an appreciation of what actually makes a good game, that fuelled that poor choice. I can guarantee you if this list were compiled anywhere but England, that load of toss excuse for a "game" would be nowhere to be found.
If you absolutely had to have it in there, couldn't you at least have kept it from souring the top 25? Deus Ex is fully deserving. I'm surprised Beneath A Steel Sky didn't make it onto the list. That's still got a good place in my heart. Also nice to see Morrowind above Oblivion. Third party mods for Morrowind just added extra amounts of joy and fun, whereas with Oblivion, I found third party mods were actually necessary to make the game half decent. OK, after a lot of thought (not easy this) I'm come up with my top 15 PC games. For the record, I've been playing PC games since the late 80's, and these are the ones that I just keep going back to.
15 - Command and Conquer 14 - Quake 13 - SimCity 2000 12 - Pirates! Gold 11 - Silent Service II 10 - Operation Flashpoint 09 - Monkey Island 2 08 - Syndicate 07 - Half-Life 06 - Doom 05 - Football Manager 2007 04 - Deus Ex 03 - Elite Plus 02 - Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 01 - Civilization 4 From listening to the debate on the DVD, I pretty much gave up on this list there and then. The conversation was about covering the bases with the various genres, did not talk about the best games.Period. But instead said things like 'should be include adventure games given they aren't popular any more' and 'there are so many of these 'old games' we could include (in a tone saying 'we won't!')
X-Com UFO at 47, no System Shock, even though SS 2 was there, so may games the latest graphic version that did nothing in sales instead of the original that broke new trends and sold millions (Pirates for example!) No talk of games like Bioforge, and mention of The Dig on the audio, but only in the sense of it won't be in beause it's 'dry' whereas Escape from Monkey Island' was 'funny'!
From the list you'd think the best PC games have all come out since around 2002 or so, and before that there was just the odd title! It was also about sales and hype as it was quality. In general, at the time, reviewers and gamers alike thought Dark Reign was better than C & C. It was C & C that sold however, but because it sold more, does it automatically become better?
It wasn't so much rose coloured glasses the PC Zone staff were wearing as it was dark glasses. Glasses that made all games pre 2002 seem invisible to them.
A couple times in the audio someone mentioned how the older games weren't playable any more. But that is ignoring the new and easy way to play using DOSBox. IN fact DOSBox and the various machine emulators (Commodore 64, Atari, NES, etc) more than anything is the reason for the explosion in retro gaming as they make playing these games easy even for mainstream gamers. How many DOS games were not bought, even though dearly wanted, because the person didn't know enough about all the set-ups you had to do in DOS to get the game working! Now they can buy that wanted game on ebay for £10, and play it in DOSBox without any of those DOS command of old!
In a previous message I mentioned what IGN gave as their Top 5. This shows were PC Zone is. The here and now. The past doesn't exist for them. It's a shame really. ut they pay a price for this. Certainly I spend more time at Gamespot and IGN now, and less at the PC Zone website, then I used to. I have been playing PC games for 20 years, I don't like that the games that sold millions and were well loved at a time of PC gaming's zenith are being dissed so much by this magazine. It's a crime and a shame that so many average mid 2000 games got in and so many pre 2002 did not. While I can agree that Deus Ex was a marvelously fun game, I do have to take issue with a few items on this list.
* Quake 3 arena was crap compared to Quake 2.
Quake 2 remains to this day, the most challenging FPS game ever to grace the PC. If you still have a copy join this server for proof: 67.19.248.74:27912
it's part of a network of more than 20 servers in North America where q2 still lives in all of its glory, 10 years after the release of the game.
how many other multiplayer games from 1998 have 20+ human players in a server 24/7?
ZERO.
* Alpha Centauri! Ring any bells? This game was better than any of the Civilization titles even those that came many years later.
* UFO: Enemy Unknown/XCOM: UFO DEFENSE has the most replay value of any strategy game ever. It's also considerably harder than any other strategy game I've ever seen, with layers of micromanagement and detail far exceeding every game since.
* Grim Fandango deserves to be in the top 10. I've never seen another game like it, and I probably won't ever. It was beautiful, immersive and featured the most innovative gameplay of any game I'd seen before.
* GTA #1!!! OMG this was the best GTA ever. every one of these lame 3rd person sequels is a joke.
* Red Baron. look it up, at the abandonware sites. This game was THE most amazing 3D flying game of it's day. (during a time when 3D meant plastic glasses with one blue lens and one red one.)
this game revolutionized flying combat in 3 dimensions with planes so slow you had to flap your arms to keep them out of stalls, and machine guns zipping off tracer rounds between the blades of your propeller!
there's more, but I'm only willing to put my 2 cents, not the whole friggin dollar. work calls. humorguy:
Some worthy points specifically the reasoning gave for some titles in the list. Dig was awesome but never liked dark reign.
Dosbox is great used it to play toonstruck - another great game which didnt sell for some reason. Winuae for all me old amiga 500 games
Whirlingdervish:
loved alpha centauri and the original GTA is still the best cant stand the 3rd person versions. seriously, i cant believe so many people slate the newer GTA games. They are perfectly tuned action with the most fun driving to be had in pretty much ANY game. Do you not have funny bones?
ps. The Dig really was awesome :D stuff I couldn't agree more with their number one choice. Deus Ex is still one of the best games I have ever played 7 years later. And it is a crime that there hasn't been a proper sequel for it since. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that there finally will be with the anouncement of Deus Ex 3. It is unfortunate that I missed Deus Ex when it came out. I recently tried it, and I can tell you that it hasn't aged well at all. I did the tutorial and got part way through the first level before I couldn't stand it anymore.
Probably an awesome game in its time, but without nostalgia to augment a fresh opinion of it, I was unimpressed. Any list that doesn't include "Master of Orion" just isn't worth it. Also, no Jagged Alliance, Unreal, Panzer General, Master of Magic and Warlords? Get over graphics "needs", get over Counter-Strike-like ambitions when it comes down to FPS-esque games, and you will be able to enjoy it. Sure it's got some pretty primitive elements by now, especially as far as how basic the core controls are, but there's loads of depth, character, and a story that's as good as it ever was.
I played it last year for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed it. Modern games that offer better graphics and more immersive character behaviour or whatever but fail in everything else can't hold a candle to it. I’m glad they’ve put up a forum on this – I love top 100 lists and PC - specifically PC - games.
I was relieved Deus Ex was no.1 - it’s the best game I've played. Just compare it to its sequel, which was never believable - comparing the two is like comparing the inept Phantom Menace film to the original Star Wars.
I agree with whirlingdervish that Alpha Centuri is better than the later CIV4, believability again being one of the factors (for me at least).
I'd have liked to have seen a couple more less-heralded classics like Blade Runner - still a fantastic game, though it needs an app running to slow down your PC so you can get past a section! Why should that stand against it, or games like it, though? Clive Barker’s Undying (though not so old) was a decent enough find, though.
I take it Thief 3 represented the series? I've not played it, but it must be fantastic to be better than 2 - I never got the vibe that it was through reviews though.
I thought the high placing of Half Life and Doom was a bit wrong. The incredible first Unreal was surely just as important a landmark (and a better memory for me) but it doesn’t appear at all, even at 101. The Doom placing would have made more sense if it at least referenced genre classics like Hexen 2. At least they admitted the final level of HL was just daft.
I did find the article to be a bit low-key - it didn't have much of an introduction to it either and it only had a small mention on the cover. Mind you, I didn’t catch the DVD version. I suppose their allegiances are more with new releases.
Final point - I've never played Eve Online (I decided to avoid these kind of online games), but I find it hard to see it as a 'PC game' somehow. It has a kind of separate online existence to me. I notice that Mac users are after ports (or ‘clients’?), to join in. I suppose I crave the single player thing, that singular other-world experience, like reading a book. I disagree with Deus Ex as #1. I've never even been able to finish the game because it was so stale and boring. The gunfights in the game were horrible, sneaking around was boring. I don't see why everyone praised the game so much and still do. Preach it brother! Preach it to the masses!!!!!!! :D
football manager doesnt count as a game... partially coz a game has to have gameplay WHAT ABOUT FABLE?!?!? that should be in there somewhere... fable was immense, you had emotional attachments to people in that game and it was immensely rewarding Congratulations to the Zone for seeing the truth about Morrowind being better than Oblivion. Now if only you'd placed it higher and got Monkey Island at number it would be the greatest list ever. Considering how much I disagree with this list this ill just list my top 5. As with every list (top 5 favoutrite films/music etc) its easy to criticise until you try to do it yourself. So here it is. Ill just stick it down now because tomorrow it will probably* be different:
5-F.E.A.R 4-Half Life 1 3-C&C Red Alert 2-Total Annihilation 1-GTA: Vice City
*by "probably" i mean "definatly" ... in second place. Get a grip, please. It has no place in the top 25. Well, because it had a great cast of characters, a great setting, one of the best stories in a game ever, and also... despite what you may think, it had really great gameplay. Sorry you have bad taste.
Lol, Eyhren... Fable in a top 10 list. Ha! I'm pleasantly surprised by this final list, the list seemed fubar in parts 1 to 3, but putting Morrowind ahead of Oblivion, and Deus Ex ahead of Half Life 2 has saved this list/
I think that Quake 1 and X-com being outside the top 25 is unforgivable. Quake was more than a game, it was a religion for many, and X-com was just brilliant. Oh well.
So there's been a revolt at PCG, eh? This list differs widly from the previous PCG top 100 (the printed version). What's going on? MDK2 should have been in there. Steve Hill (I think) gave a poor review - and missed a fantastic game (maybe with a slowish start). One of the hardest ever too. It might have been a Playstation conversion - does that make a difference?
I like to go by games that have ingrained in my memory - the first Unreal (so atmospheric and clever too), MDK 2, Thief 2, many of the levels in ALice had everything you could want (Mcgees a true artist). Someone else mentioned Beneath a Steel Sky- that was 2000AD on a PC. Blade Runner's dramatic storytelling (by screenwriters), blew me away. They are all better games than some in the Top list IMO (inc civ3!).
I've never bought a WW2 FPS and never will. Next stop Venezuela.
IMO, so what if Half Life had groundbreaking elements -was it realy that good?
Deus Ex stands head and shoulders above anything I've seen - it's still miles ahead. However able PCs get, you need magical teamwork to come up with something pure like that. Deus Ex first may I say wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Rome Total War all the way!!!! most addictive game i have ever played. HL2 and Starcraft are freaking amazing too. Sigh, Half-Life 2. The most overrated game ever. Average AI - enemies just rushed you! Zero story - why are all those aliens I slaughtered in HL now on my side? Why am I now looked at as some great hero? Who the hell are these Combine anyway? Questions never answered, and it's hard to care. Rubbish vehicle bits - nuff said here. The gravity gun - only useful in situations which had been specifically designed for it. And as for great characters, oh please. I can't believe PCZ claims it's so unique in this respect. Any good RPG or adventure game has better developed NPCs, and much better dialogue. Alex was fun, sure, but I don't even remember the names of the rest. HL2 completely failed to be anything more than a shooter, and was not innovative in the least. ZZZZ boring! HL2 is vastly overrated, and what the hell is WoW doing there at 14? it shouldnt even be within the top 50. Its just addictive, like crack, especially to the koreans, but its got **** all gameplay. Doom should be higher than both of those games.
I cant really argue with Deus Ex, I never really played it, only the demo.
I never agree with peoples opinions on these anyway, I know what my favourite games are and thats all that counts to me.
My top 5 games ever (if youre interested)
1. Command and COnquer: TIberian Dawn, the first C&C game is my favourite game of all time, then Red Alert, the other C&C games are poor in comparison.
2. Doom, still the best FPS ever. No other one has enemies as funny, especially the cacodemon, plus the enemies actually fight eachother, you dont see that anymore. Blood is almost on par with this game, second best FPS ever by Monolith.
3.Freespace 1 and 2. Best space sim ever, too bad they wont be making anymore, more games like this need to come out these days, it had a great story and was so much fun.
4. MechWarrior. again, we need more Mech games, come on microsoft ffs! Such a great feeling to go round in a giant mech and stomp on buildings and blow shit out of everything.
5.Super Metroid. Awesome game with a great ending. I dont like the look of the new Metroids, 16bit is the best.
I was going to stick FF7 in because its a fantastic game to play for the first time, but it doesnt have as much replay value as the other games.
Other Favourite Games Carmageddon Space Hulk: Veangence of the Blood Angels Rollercoaster Tycoon/Theme Park No One Lives Forever 2 Unreal Tournament. Age of Empires Second only to Halo. Best PC games
Age of empires 2 quake 2 hexen 2 star control 2 mech warrior 2 ghost bear legacy civ 2 runescape 2 Lords of the realm 2 settlers 2
2 is super lucky How the hell does Deus Ex always do so well? I played it for about half an hour then gave up, its one of the biggest piles of crap ever, i have never met anyone who has ever played it or enjoyed it yet it always does so well. Why? I'd like to see another list like this in 5 years or so. We've had some great classics, most listed, but I feel that many greats are going to be forgotten, perticularly with the next generation of gamers. No one should have to explain who Max Payne is for example...
There are too many games out there. I say that weighing up AAA chart toppers vs. the forgetables. I would really like to see in my lifetime a year when all games we're good, so good in fact that at least 20 would end up in a list like this one.
But then we'd lose more awesome titles to progress. Makes me feel cold. I might be losing the power to read, but I did not see Bioshock. Please tell me it's on the list - I haven't played a more atmospheric and interesting game since Deus Ex, and I personally find it more fun than that. Am I the only one that loves this game? :? so boring and lame, what the HELL is World of Warcraft doing there? It's not even a good game. Oh and Half Life 2? overrated in my opinion, but still a good game. I much prfered HL1. Posted by maugrim2712 "Deus Ex is an amazing game, and deserved NO.1 place. Half Life 2 was a big let down though, don't know why it's at No.2!"
I agree. Half life 2 is the most over-rated game of all time(imho), and Deus Ex has never been bettered. I was hoping that Bioshock would deliver a similarly enthralling experience to Deus Ex, but I got bored of it after a few hours play. I think I invested more time in Operation Flashpoint than any other game ever. ArmA was such a disappointment. :cry: Where the Hell is C&C....not even in the top 25?
pfff! You think you`ve been sniped from aq distance in flashpoint??????????? you should play the console battlefield 2 where games nowdays are trans- map snipe affairs :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x My favourite 1>age of empires 2(only staregy game being played in net more than 12 years and still new players! 8) ) 2>Mafia(the most beautiful storyline i found in a game) 3>Thief Gold(in expert mode its most challenging game..caution :not for blind shooters that shoot anything that moves :P ) 4>WOW(its really good) Could agree more on Deus Ex being #1. There is no game that I have EVER come close to replaying more. Usually, I can't reply a game more than once, if that, even game I liked. Deus Ex is the exception. I still pick it up and re-install it every year or two and play at least part way through the game. A phenomenal game in the literal meaning of the word. Seriously dude, check the date the poll was put up. It was like 4 or 5 months before Bioshock came out. Starcraft and Diablo 2 are on top of my list. But currently I am playing simpler games which are just as enjoyable like Gemsweeper or Arcade Lines from http://www.lobstersoft.com 1. Doom 2. System Shock (the first one) 2. World of Warcraft 3. Half Life Series 4. Day of Defeat Source 6. Ultima Underworld Series 7. TES3: Morrowind 8. The Incredible Machine 9. Zork 10. Wolfenstein 3D 11. MS Flight Simulator series 12. Mobile 1 Rally Championship 13. Tie Fighter 14. Combat Mission - Barbarossa to Berlin 15. NetHack 16. Neverwinter Nights (thanks to the fan mods!) 17. Sam and Max Hit the Road 18. Audiosurf 19. Alone in the Dark 20. Sim City
Yeah yeah, I cheated a little bit with "series." |