Surely integrating it into the dashboard is doing exactly what he thinks they need to.
This is something they've said they'd do from the start.
Oh, and CVG, if you're going to be conveniently selective on the content of the article when you write your headlines - you could at least do a once over on your spelling
I'm no fan of natal, or arm-wavey gaming in general, but I don't think he's got a point. The sensor bar isn't integrated into the Wii, Eye-toy isn't integrated into the PS2/3. Not everyone has their 360 in the optimum place for Natal to work, ie on top of/in front of their TV. He's just being sour, scoring points in a cheap way.
I guess back in 2008 he had a point, the sensor bar was still going to do on board processing, but that's been ditched and everything is now done by the 360 itself, so there's nothing to integrate; not like the camera and sensors can be anywhere but the bar.
Hate to say it but a complete non story and a very misleading/tabloid headline too.
i agree with the potential for fracturing the 360 crowd completely.
mega cd anyone?
i've got a 360,won't be touching natal. i'm not paying a ton for an add on for my console. end of story. i've already got xbl subs,overpriced dlc and finding a 120gb hdd for a reasonable price to worry about.
i also think sony may have the same problem with move tbh.
if there's a package that includes a pad,console and motion sensing kit available for each console allied to a price cut AND good software that perfectly encapsulates how motion should be used in games then there's a chance it'll take off.
but sony and ms can't seriously be expecting early 360/ps3 adopters to fork out en mass for motion control.
not for a ton.
one other thing that 360/ps3 users will find is that most early titles to use the tech will be hit and miss at best: putting a fair proportion who didn't like the wii off motion control for good.
it's too early in this console cycle to be jumping ahead yet but i'm really surprised sony and ms didn't hold on to the tech,make a new console and launch their own version of the wii.
i can't see either succeeding in the market enough with the 60 odd million people (combined) who already own a ps3/360.
He means, that the natal will be like the mega cd or 32x for the megadrive. Not enough people will buy the add on, causing developers to only develop for the stand alone 360 console ignoring the natal. IF people don't buy natal that is. Or they don't make it a compulsory upgrade.
youre all missing the point..I dont think hes talking about plugging the thing into it. He means that unless you make natal and 360 one and the same thing then every game that is developed will be either a 360 game or a natal game. When you consider that this specially developed natal-centric game wont be coming out on ps3 and you wont be able to play it if you just own the standard xbox, then right there youre knowingly and willingly losing 90% of the possible market. This is an obstacle that wii motion plus, move and natal all face.. wm+ less so because of the lower development costs
I'm pretty sure he means integrated into the actual Xbox, physically. He has a point too. Rumors say that will be the case in future consoles but if it's priced seperately as these same rumors say ($149) then it will tank unless it is SO awesome that everyone wants one. Who will spend millions of dollars to make a game that retails for $60 only to know that in order to play it the consumer must also drop $150 on Natal? Only early adopters will do that and that won't cover development cost. I sure as hell won't spend that much money to use my hands as pinball flippers or some other lame concept. I am still very interested in it though.
"When I'm spending tens of millions on a game, the last thing I want to do is lose 90 per cent of my market."
Thats assuming we don't just get a slew of shovelware 'excercise' games for fat women in jog pants who want to appease their consciences between bags of crisps. I may be cynical, but I think thats the dollar Microsoft are chasing.
By his logic, Move will fail, motion plus will fail etc...
I could happen, I'm not sure how much of a market there is for added motion control this gen.
I guess developers/publishers will want to see a) that these motion controls will work; b) that there's going to be a bloody huge great marketing push from the platform holders and c) that enough gamers want to play the games using these controllers.
Ultimately it will come down to 'can we make a profit?'. It's always a risk with new platforms I guess. I think they will need to show plenty of integration with existing titles to get people on board too.
I think Move has more potential to add a new experience to an existing game, just as the controls are suited to an FPS. It does have a pointer, doesn't it? Maybe they can do it another way (I'm no tech expert) but it'd seem pretty important. Obviously this is a big limitation for natal, especially when FPSs are the 360's bread and butter.
youre all missing the point..I dont think hes talking about plugging the thing into it. He means that unless you make natal and 360 one and the same thing then every game that is developed will be either a 360 game or a natal game. When you consider that this specially developed natal-centric game wont be coming out on ps3 and you wont be able to play it if you just own the standard xbox, then right there youre knowingly and willingly losing 90% of the possible market. This is an obstacle that wii motion plus, move and natal all face.. wm+ less so because of the lower development costs
I agree with you on that. Wii is built around its motion control so developers have a base setup that they know everyone will have. Natal and Move are add-ons and therefore developers will have to make the tricky choice of whether to make a normal 360/ps3 gave or one that uses the new controls at the expense of the installed userbase.
However I am not sure either microsoft or sony can do anything about it this generation as they are unlikely to come over to my house to integrate the equipment by force. (They are not apple).
youre knowingly and willingly losing 90% of the possible market. This is an obstacle that wii motion plus, move and natal all face.. wm+ less so because of the lower development costs
I agree with you and I don't. I think Move will be easily intergrated into most games. You'll be given a choice to use Move or a standard controller. That already makes it an easier choice, at the end of the day its another controller, Natal isn't.
youre knowingly and willingly losing 90% of the possible market. This is an obstacle that wii motion plus, move and natal all face.. wm+ less so because of the lower development costs
I agree with you and I don't. I think Move will be easily intergrated into most games. You'll be given a choice to use Move or a standard controller. That already makes it an easier choice, at the end of the day its another controller, Natal isn't.
However then you will be stuck with most games having tacked on motion controls rather than built from the ground up to be motion controlled.
Will be buying both tbh, even if only 1 game on each platform uses it to it's full potential
Keep the shovelware, but being a gamer who buys things like steel battalion I'm happy to pay the dough if it works and delivers what I want... (Which is basically telling NPC's where to go, with there collect 100 flag missions etc)!
Next gen face mapping could be epic too, as I found it hillarious when my and my neighbour done it on RB6 3, even though it took 1.5 hours to get the right photo, and the lip syncing was funny as hell.
I've heard that absolutely nobody bought the Wii Balance Board because it wasn't integrated into the Wii.
good point that. well made.
however,nintendo rode in on a wave of hype about motion controls and managed to tap in to the 20-50 odd year old womens market with wii fit,etc...
the 360/ps3 are seen as teenage boys wet dream material by most adults who lack game experience,unfortunately.
the brand isn't associated with motion control,it's associated with loud american children mouthing obscenities on violent games that are all bang and bluster.
to me,ms and sony's motion control strategy is akin to bolting the door when the horse has become pate: it's too late,this gen is over 4 years old now and will be over in 18-24 months.
I've heard that absolutely nobody bought the Wii Balance Board because it wasn't integrated into the Wii.
That's true. But what 'core' games are available that use the board? Perhaps these new controllers will drive new software revenue for existing owners i.e. tradional non gamers getting games for the 360 someone else in the home already owns, rather than pushing the sales of new consoles. If MS/Sony make money from software and hardware sales to existing owners, I'm sure they'll be happy. Four years after the release of the wii is simply too late IMO.
I'm still on the fence. My only worry is that so many people seem to be on the fence that they'll wait until more games come out, but then the developers will have to be sure there's a market to sell these games to and alot of this market will still be sitting on the fence.
MS are going to have to release some first party stormers I think as 3rd parties might see the risk as too high, especially with big budget games. XBLA/indie games could prove vital here.
I just hope that Rare does bring Killer Instinct 3 to E3 and say "Well here it is. You have been begging for this for years.Enjoy!!....Oh but you can only play it with Natal".
I think the vast majority of people paid £60 for the balance board and wii fit knowing full well that they'd never buy another game which utilised it. It's the same concept as a guitar hero controller.. And I agree with people who say that move wont be as much a struggle as natal development wise due to the fact that it takes a day or two to add controls to an fps for example, and theres no reason for them to feel "tacked on", it's the equivalent of adding joypad to controls to a pc game
I think the vast majority of people paid £60 for the balance board and wii fit knowing full well that they'd never buy another game which utilised it. It's the same concept as a guitar hero controller.. And I agree with people who say that move wont be as much a struggle as natal development wise due to the fact that it takes a day or two to add controls to an fps for example, and theres no reason for them to feel "tacked on", it's the equivalent of adding joypad to controls to a pc game
Ah yes the Guitar Hero peripherals. Yet another flop.
[ That's true. But what 'core' games are available that use the board? (snip)
MS are going to have to release some first party stormers I think as 3rd parties might see the risk as too high, especially with big budget games. XBLA/indie games could prove vital here.
There are a other more core games that use the balance board. Punch Out, Shaun white, Skate it,Avatar.
It's brill for the boarding games. but punch out not so much. then again it is only an extra control option.
I agree with you that MS are going to have to release some pretty cracking games to get people interested especially if its going to cost £100 and not have any compatibility with existing titles. Which is where i think move has the huge advantage as it's already been revealed that existing games will recieve patches to use it. £50 for a new controller doesn't seem half as bad if you've already got a library of games to use it with.
Likewise with motion plus. although it can't be put into existing wii games becasue its only a small add on it can and already has been bundled with motion plus only games for only an extra £10 which makes it much more attractive. add it to the fact that it now comes as standard with the wii and you've got an ever shrinking divide of wii owners with it vs without it.
Is it just me who thinks the thread title is, once again, a bit misleading? To me it seemed to imply that the tech itself was a failure, rather than how it's integrated with the 360.
Is it just me who thinks the thread title is, once again, a bit misleading? To me it seemed to imply that the tech itself was a failure, rather than how it's integrated with the 360.
Is it just me who thinks the thread title is, once again, a bit misleading? To me it seemed to imply that the tech itself was a failure, rather than how it's integrated with the 360.
i'm not sure. the title caught my eye,i read the story and if the guy is right with his projections then 90% of consumers shunning your product is a massive failure by any standards.
It's simply too late to now try and market the 360 to the massive Wii crowd.
If MS was first out the traps with this motion tech it would of course be a different story. But they will be competing directly against Wii and Sony too when they release what is essentially an (rumoured) expensive add-on.
Even if it was priced at £50 I couldn't see it being a major success. MS's resources will ensure Natal will have a load of support but after a while, devs will question the merit in releasing games for such a small market.
For those using the Wii add ons as examples of success it's worth noting that one Nintendo basically did what this guy is suggesting with WMP and the BB being packed in with mandatory games as well as having the right software to push them for the intended market. Secondly games on the Wii are generally designed and devloped only for it unlike most HD games which tend to be multiplatform to make up for the higher development costs, to make a game for the ground up for Natal/Move means risking the chance of MP. The rumoured prices aren't very encouraging either tbh.
I just hope that we can get over motion control (as it's currently being developed and used) and just forget about it. Hopefully we will all look back and treat it like virtual reality.
It's hit and miss. Obviously the wii balance board (and wings) has been profitable, but that may only be because of the particular appeal of the wii. I would argue that there are basically no games that use it. Guitar hero guitars have obviously been popular, as well as rock band stuff. However, the sega 32x obviously was a flop.
One thing seems likely- both natal and move will have a very limited supply of dedicated games.
Plus if they mention a new console any timne soon, like in the next year or so, no one is going to buy it!
Its probably a little too late in the 360 cycle to do well. Companies wont invest in good games until the user base is high, its very chicken and egg for me.
A lot of people are missing the point he was trying to make. If Natal was integrated into the 360 then developers would know that 100% of 360 owners have Natal and therefore their game can potentially appeal to that audience. The way M$ are doing it though is to sell it separately which means that any game a developer makes utilising Natal is only going to be playable by the percentage of users who purchase Natal. Therefore the 100% audience is reduced to 30% (or whatever it turns out to be). Why take that risk? The developer can make its game without arm-wavey technology and appeal to a bigger audience. That is what this bloke was getting at.
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