Some of the anti-game arguments would be laughable - if this wasn't national telly.
As well as 'sexpert' Julie Peasgood claiming that games "promote racism" and "cause low self-esteem and depression", Tim also faced down erroneous allegations that games didn't have age ratings from Titchmarsh himself.
Former editor of The Sun Kelvin MacKenzie was a little less hysterical, but still certainly sat closer to the 'anti-games' camp.
Tim countered with strong arguments on gaming's regulation and the fact adult titles "shouldn't be getting into kids' hands in the first place".
As you'd imagine, it's a fiery, frequently aggravating encounter. Watch it on the ITV Player, 23 minutes in - or check out the clip here:
Nice try Tim, but you were always fighting a losing battle there. Well "fighting" is probably the wrong word considering their "total opposition to violence". I must say you put up some very valid points and it is clear from some of the other guests comments that they had very little knowledge of games, especially when Titchmarsh said games weren't rated!
It's clear that violence can be a little excessive in video games sometimes, but if you look at some of the horror movies (like Saw) that have been released in recent years games are nowhere near that level of brutality.
Nice of them to try and claim that video games make all kids depressive psychopaths though. Maybe they should watch the news to see that violence has become a daily occurance. The difference there is that the violence is real. If it wasn't for wars we wouldn't have these movies and games in the first place.
I watched it yesterday and thought it was awful. I don't think you could've found 3 people less clued up on games! It felt like poor Tim was being thrown to the lions (albeit elderly granny lions who'd sooner munch on a werthers than your head!) I noticed that none of them were acknowledging Tim's point that these games shouldn't be in the hands of minors anyway and that they have a rating, just like movies and dvd's. Their argument was flimsy at best and they were absolutely glossing over everything he had to say. Bloody Alan Titchmarsh!
I didn't find it explosive or shout at the tv stuff. But it does go to show that people don't know what they are talking about and what's scary is that there's so much ignorance going into legislation these days. Hopefully in the next 10-15 years we can learn to be more tolerant and open-minded about things and other peoples' opinions than we are at the moment instead of trying to control others all the time and making life what it isn't.
It's like trying to ban adult dvds because John Terry has been in the news and mtv is sexualising our children. I wouldn't have thought Julie Peasgood would have been happy with her world being curtailed because other people are irresponsible with media.
Their argument was that films are not interactive therefore they are not bad, yet they go on to say that war should not be a source of entertainment. Aren't films and games entertainment in their own right?
As a kid, films such as Halloween scared the cr@p out of me with the fear that there could easily be someone in my house waiting for the chance to kill me. Games however empower people in some ways in that you ultimately fend off threats and evil. As a child, empowerment to ward off your fears is good in my opinion.
However, they ignore the fact that it is the parents responsibility to prevent their children from playing games rated 15 or above.
Good comeback Tim with the part about parental controls on the PS3 and 360.
good on you tim for holding your ground with such a bias audience and people who had no idea on what thye were talkinf about. it will all change in the future i hope
Tim you are a star. you were fully up against it there.
That Julie woman is a right tit though. At the end of the day it is the parents fault for giving the games to the child in the first place. A child does not have enough money to even buy the game, let alone the console, in the first place.
The game industry is single handedly keeping this country alive in this economic downturn and it's just another cheap shot at finding a scapegoat for "violence" in our children.
I have played computer games all my life, as have most of us on here, and i'm pretty sure we are the nicest bunch of geeks you will ever meet.
That Julie woman is a right tit though. At the end of the day it is the parents fault for giving the games to the child in the first place. A child does not have enough money to even buy the game, let alone the console, in the first place.
The game industry is single handedly keeping this country alive in this economic downturn and it's just another cheap shot at finding a scapegoat for "violence" in our children.
Exactly blame anyone except the parents who buy it for them in the first place
They just can't seem to grasp the simple concept that some games, just like every other piece of entertainment, movies, books, music etc... aren't always for kids. They have this totally naive idea that it is only kids that buy/play video games, and that they can buy/play these games whenever they feel like it.
Kids aren't allowed to buy certain games, and parents have a responsibility to not let kids play certain games, just like they do with movies etc... The whole games are 'addictive' 'promote violence' 'racist' argument is made completely mute by that fact.
Good job Tim, you came across in a simple, well informed manner. Its just a pity the other people involved in your 'discussion' were blinded by complete naivety...
Surely though these old, out of touch buffoons will all die off at some point and the human race will just be left with people that actually understand video games and then it will all be ok, won't it?
You should have turned up wearing a Nintendo Virtual Boy and a Super Scope. Whenever either of the guests spoke you should have made a static noise followed by "Hit confirmed" following your aiming animation.
Or...
You could have made a mock up of pixelisation from Perspex for when something is censored on TV and placed it over Kelvin and Julie. Seriously, Kelvin publishes pictures of barely legal girls t!ts in tabloid newspapers, and Julie writes books that children can get hold of advising them of The Greatest Sex Tips in the World
I noticed that none of them were acknowledging Tim's point that these games shouldn't be in the hands of minors anyway and that they have a rating, just like movies and dvd's.
Exactly... The whole argument was made pointless by Tim stating in his first sentence that yes, not all games should be played by kids. Some games do have content that kids shouldn't be allowed to see/hear/play etc.. and thats why they have age certificates on them to stop kids playing games they shouldn't
They seemed to either not understand that simple point or just plain ignore it.
I hardly have the patience or time to comment here, but I feel I must...
It's through certain media that don't know how to portray/represent video games that cause a lot of this ignorance. Not to sound too vile/evil (same letters!), but the sooner those Alan Bitchmarsh and other ignorance of the same age group die out, the better...
When we get to 'that' age, I know for certain we'll have a MUCH better understanding of our children!
(P.S. ...but c'mon CVG! Going on that s**t of a TV show and trying to defend something that they clearly have no clue about!? )
Who the f**k does julie peasgood think she is!!! Its ok blasting her Sex Tips all over the internet. She was also in Brookside which had more sex,drugs and violence than any other soap i've seen. f**kin has been actress!!! This is what happens when actors/actresses are out of decent career options,they go on some idiotic crusade.It'll blow over the same as it always does. This topic has been around as long as the game console,and never been sorted. And Alan titchmarsh needs to go back to his f**kin garden the boring tosser. The only one of them that was half decent was the old geezer,and he looked like he had been forced to be there by his mrs.
Great try there Tim. Like walking into a firing squad though. Julie Peasgood's only valid point is that movies are not interactive where as games are so they can't be compared in that way. However to suggest that they cause depression i found extremely offensive. Utter rubbish. This reeks of the Cooper Lawrence/Mass Effect fiasco. Not even the crowd were willing to listen to your points. A valiant effort and if it did anything it was that it highlighted the ongoing ignorance of people in their views of the industry and proved that video games shall remain a scapegoat for violence, racism sexual deviance and crime for some time to come.
What is up with the audience aplauding some random piece of so called 'evidence' about games making people violent, however when Tim brought up the governments own investigation which showed there was no link they didn't want any of it and heckled him?
People don't seem to understand that one thing doesn't make people violent. Its a combination of several factors. We have known this for decades, however some people still don't get this. They still think that playing violent games makes people violent.
I am willing to bet there are quite a few violent people out there that have played a violent video game. However I am willing to bet there are quite a few more non violent people that have played a violent video game...
I watched this yesterday and I've never been more offended in my life. That silly cow was saying that video games causes "racism, sexism and horrific violence" what sort of games has she been playing?
The only thing about videogames that makes me violent is when daft people who don't know what they're talking about (like that daft cow) start slagging off my favourite past time just because they don't understand it!
All in all I've never been happier to look at a person and laugh as it's obvious she knew NOTHING about what she was talking about.
It's never been a better time to be a gamer than right now in my opinion and people slandering games for societies ills seriously need to STFU and take a good hard look at society in general. Games don't kill people stupid people kill people.
Tim was excellent, putting many great points across whilst under fire. I thought the audience was very rude rude to boo. After all, he was only defending a perfectly legal form of entertainment.
This like everything in today's life boils down to education of the subject matter. How can you judge something if you have never seen,played or bought said item? An old girlfriend of mine didn't think twice about buying an 15 or 18 rated game for her then 8 year old son or even watching an 18 rated film despite my protests and then was shocked when he started swearing and getting an attitude! Are these parents that stupid that they think a rating system is there for no reason? is it just for an easy life that they buy it for their kids or do think it doesn't apply to their special ones? Games have grown up, jeez the price of some these days,you have to be a grown up to afford them!
Its hard defending video games when there are people out there with no first hand experience. Games with innovation are much more praised than those with excessive violence. There are some exceptions like God of War 3 where the violence is glorified but it is within the context of the character.
MW2's CIA mission does not require active participation, can be skipped, and if anyone does get into that kind of thing find themselves dead by the end of the level, which is hardly rewarding the player for what just happened.
Seriously, she should get into the likes of LittleBigPlanet or some random Nintendo title and see if she doesn't enjoy them.
That was hopeless. None of the people there were gamers apart from Tim and had just been whipped up into a Daily Mail apopleptic frenzy (or at least Julie Peasgood had) with out of context information and responses. Just as the emergence of the popular novel was blamed for the corruption of women and children, so videogames are today. Well, maybe not women. Maybe we won't see any sensible arguments or action until there isn't a generation alive that isn't familiar with games, but that needn't be. The interesting debate, for now, needs to happen between gamers. I have a couple of points.
Firstly, age ratings are not as enforced as they are in film. This is the fault of parents mostly, but the pressures that parents are under to get the games in the cultural ascendent, ie, the good ones, is great. Many of the really good games are rated 18: GTA IV, Fallout 3, MW 2, God of War 3, or have adult content. My sister bought COD MW 2 for my nephews, 12 and 10, because 'everyone else at school has it'. And they had. And my nephews were missing out on the multiplayer fun they were all having and talking about. I play it with them, and watching their response to the No Russian level was uncomfortable. They promised their parents that they would skip the level, which they did, but when I went to play it with them they loaded it up and gleefully mowed everyone down, laughing maniacally, but only because they knew it was a 'naughty scene' and why it had the 18 certificate. They were looking at me as they did it, like kids do when they know what they're doing is wrong but they're pushing you to discover how far they can push the boundaries. Kids aren't stupid, but they don't have the maturity to reflect on the significance of such things. I tried to explain it to them but it didn't really work. Like Julie Peasgood, they had little contextual appreciation, of world history, politics and warfare to understand what the game was trying to do. To them, it WAS gratuitous. And I thought it was a bit forcibly controversial too, but it did work. When I played it, I couldn't shoot anyone, and felt bad when shooting the special forces teams that descend on you at the end of the level.
My point is that adult games should be forced to have some form of parental lock on them so the 'naughty bits' are excluded from the game. An option to skip the level is not enough. All game outlets, online and offline, should clearly inform adults with children that there is parental lock available for the game and issue leaflets and dedicated webpages informing them of what to do to lock the game. Fallout 3 with no gibs and no swearing would be fine for kids. MW 2 minus No Russian and no blood on the screen would also be fine (haven't played it all so there might be more). It might be harder for games such as Condemned 2, which is unremittingly bleak, but it would be possible. Perhaps these games could have a parental unlock somehow built in. It may only be realistic with games with an expected large market, with a heavy marketing budget, which would come with greater responsibility to make it flexibly rated.
It IS the parent's responsibility to monitor games use, but they need to be given the tools to adjust the game so it is more appropriate for the kids, because when a game is as culturally prevalent as MW 2, kids WILL play it, no matter what the age rating. As my nephews say frustratedly, 'All the best games are 18's though'.
Before they've even said anything, you KNOW that Tim's the only normal human being on there.
Even the audience are mental, gasping and Tim's claims - they're not even that astonishing, by ANY stretch of the imagination!
Well done Tim though, how you didn't get up and slap that bitch round the face, I do not know. I guess that really wouldn't have helped the cause. He really kept his cool and gave some good answers, which I know most of us couldn't have managed to answer without appearing like we're in the wrong.
I'm still stunned how against Tim the audience was. My mum's pretty conservative, quite the Alan Tichmarsh fan herself, no way in hell would I see her actually GASPING at Tim. Get a grip! Sheesh . .
Violent games should not get into the hands of children anyway and it's the Parent/Guardians fault if they do.
Films Promote Violence just as much, maybe even more so than games anyway. She talked about addiction, but look at how many kids sit around and watch TV anyway and look at some of the things they watch with their parents.
I have never wanted to go out and pay for Sex and after im done, shoot her and take the money.
But My cousin tried to throw her Dog out of the window, because she thought it could fly, after watching PETER f**king PAN!.
It gives you an indication on the back just like a film, of what it contains whether its, nudity/Sex or violence ect. So it should be advised to look at the back of the case, or find out more about the game before buying it, Like on CVG
A friend of mine covered my feelings pretty well "One of the most frustrating things is that I grew up with violent video games, and by these c****' logic, I should be a dysfunctional lunatic who rapes cars and steals old ladies."
Well Done Tim, but u just aswell of not bothered they were never going to listen. Anyways im 15 am im sorry but there point of causing problems with behaivor or whatever nonsense they were talking about is esactly that. If anything i take my anger and stuff out on games like MW2. And that's another point that level they talk about clearly asks you as the beginning whether u want to play it.
Why didnt they have a proper panel. The CVG knows what he is talking about and deserves to be there, but what do the other 2 have that qualifies them to speak on gaming. They have no knowledge of gaming and its effects people.
They should have put psycologists or people that might actually know what they are voicing their opions on.
This topic needs a balanced debate, not some daytime TV show watched my imbecilic housewives and the unemployed.
A gardener, a journalist and woman so far removed from the subject matter, an insect probably has more insight into videogames. And these people are 'educating' old people and paranoid, out-of-touch (and no doubt) bad parents about a billion pound industry that provides entertainment for millions of people around the world.
Perhaps next week, on that pathetic show, they'll interview a frog about new discoveries in medicine, or perhaps a dead cat on the dangers of space travel.
Like the host and (I assume) most of his guests, I'm pretty clueless about many things... perhaps I should go on the programme and talk about an industry I know nothing of.
He tried his best and I agree with what he said. Local gamestores are trying their best to reduce minors purchasing over 15 games - I walked in 2 years ago for GTA and asked to show my ID because I looked about 17, though I was 18.
Its silly that the other two never considered that it is also the parents' responsability to see or check what their children are playing in the next room, there could be also a slight chance that the parents' has also bought the damn game for their children to play.
Plus I've never had a thrill with action/gore games, it was more of being more intregued with the graphics and the storyline.
Addition to it, films are more possibly even more violent, these silly reporters and analysts just want to put the blame on Gaming because they are running out of stories and desires to fraustrate communities like CVG or any other gaming community.
The two bottomholes had no idea what they were talking about incorrect research and sorry, do we really need to rely on numbers? So ending my rant, its full of s**t.
But you had a good try Tim, you kept it cool so respect. =)
Perhaps they would rather we went out on a saturday night,got p**sed,caused some agg and got locked up for the night. No!!Kids should'nt get there hands on rated'm' games,but how many of us in our 30s played violent games when we were kids and turned out quite alright. I loved splatterhouse when i was a kid,but when i finished,i didnt go wielding a meat cleaver or bat around.
The problem is they read the papers and the papers never play these games. They just want you to buy their paper.
If I read the story on MW2s airport level before I had played the game I would have had nightmares. The funny part is what was written in the papers was more gory than the game. They forget just like the news a 4 year old can understand and be left alone with the news on the TV and the paper on the floor by dads chair.
This is the main problem the high and mighty types think they know it all. They don't need to play a game they know all about it from the paper and TV. The paper never lies when it says what you want to hear.
The main point to all this is it ends with the parents if they are not doing the job correctly. This is what starts and ends violence if someone has not learnt right from wrong. No TV, paper, Film, socialising and gaming will make someone go out and end someone's life they should know right from wrong already.
For those that didn't see on the other article, I was totally annoyed by this and wrote an angry rant on ITV's forum.
http://forums.itv.com/thread/918302.aspx
I wish there was something we could do to raise awareness about the maturity of games. Hopefully this would mean less jippy little kids on 18 rated multiplayer games...
People wonder why Games get such bad press, yet it's no wonder when they pit three completely ill informed... krunts against one educated proffesional. Well done for not strangling Julie Peasgood Tim. You're fantastic.
couple of other things, if there is going to be a serious debate about this then A t**s show is not really a good place to start a serious diuscussion, considering that David Cameron was interviewed on there i feel that his views may be a little biased.
The other point as well, is the interview starts off with 'you may know about the BAFTAs but what about for videogames?' then nothing in the interview is said about the BAFTAs. Just and all out assault on violence in video games.
Nothing is mentioned about the brillance of Games like Braid or Portal or even how Natal and the sony willy wand is going to change interation over the family games industry.
I wont put anything here that has already been said ...
I will say this though ... Violent Films, TV, Video Games, Books etc are there because of the reflection of real life, not the other way round. We have violence in entertainment becuase we live in a violent world.
Maybe we should sort out the violence in the real world first before worrying about whats going on in the virtual world.
I thought Tim did really well in a Daily Mail style bigoted environment,full of the usual ignorance and stupidity from people like that.My favourite comment was the racism one.When has a videogame promoted it?I've never played one,and yes,I include Resi 5 in that.
What is up with the audience aplauding some random piece of so called 'evidence' about games making people violent, however when Tim brought up the governments own investigation which showed there was no link they didn't want any of it and heckled him?
Same as always the older generation using games as a scapegoat. Films and TV are ok but were from that generation they don't fear it they understand it. But Games they don't understand so they fear them. For example in the late 80's my dad would not let me play my Nes on his big Tv (he said it would damage it lol) but would watch video's all day long. CVG should invite Alan and his army of ol fudddys to the cvg office and show them the amazing things that have come out of games like wii/fit, prof layton xbox live to name a few. That woman on the other hand needs to wise up and realise that the violence problem kids have is from bad parenting and not from what form of entertainment they use.
My children are not violent in any way and both enjoy video games (under my supervision) on a regular occasion.
The only way that Tim could have possibly won this argument on The Alan Titchmarsh show is if he presented actual proof that Princess Diana played Grand Theft Auto IV, Gandhi completed his tenth prestige on Modern Warfare 2 and that Jesus blew up Megaton in Fallout 3.
What makes me laugh is that a vast majority of the audience is made up of parents that once the show is over will go out and buy Grand Theft Auto for little Jonny.
I my self had a massive shouting match with some woman who was buying GTA for her little kid, it's idiots like that, that have got us into this bad guy corner today.
I actually felt my intelligence drop while watching that (on Youtube BTW as we can't watch the ITV player in 'Southern' Ireland). Has Tim returned yet or has been telepathically lobotomized by the "intelligence" of that woman.
Alan Tichmarsh, the gardener....And an audience full of o.a.p tory facists who'd like no more than all the younsters of the country to be shot at dawn. It makes me sick that these people can even think that the kids of today are that stupid that they'd play MW2 than want to gun down a shopping centre full of innocent people, they're comparing the kids of today to the kids of yesterday, who used to play with lead soldiers and sticks and hoops, times change, and so do the kids. (By the way I'm over 40 with 2 very respectful and well behaved kids, who love videogames, like mysef)
Plenty of violent types out there that don't even play games or indeed have ever done so.Bad parenting is generally much more a problem here and lack of guidence
Iv'e played games from 9yo and 27 years onwards and i'm as gentle as a lamb
Violence comes from frustrations and a lack of knowing right from wrong.Frustrations are brought about by many past things and our choices in dealing with these types of situations is partly because of them
My brain has hurt for many moons and it is the fault of games, i watched the show and from what i heard kids have adult games in their hands but the games ar 18 and not for kids, now stop me if i'm wrong but does this mean kids have 18 hands? i struggle with everyday life and it's bubsy the bobcats fault, if games are deforming our kids then games are wrong like the horny old dear said. Head. Hurts.
None of these people seemed gto grasp that all of these concerned parents are the ones at fault, for probably buying their kids the games in the first place!
Just wanted to add my support to Tim Ingham re. the appalling treatment he received on the Alan Titchmarsh show. I don't know a lot about video games (sorry!), but was disgusted at how Tim was treated. If any of you feel the need to vent your spleens further, there's a small thread going on the ITV Forum (http://forums.itv.com/918572/ShowThread.aspx#918572), and you can address complaints to: Channel Television (the Channel 3 broadcast licensee appointed by ITV Net work to be responsible for the compliance of this particular programme) via feedback@channeltvlondon.co.uk or by telephone on 0207 633 9902.
As a gamer, I might be ever so slightly in love with Tim for defending gaming with reasoned arguments, instead of the patronizing and hypercritical arguments of Kelvin and Julie (I'm not going to bother finding her name out, if she couldn't bother looking up the name of a game she was going to criticize on national TV).
However, if Titchmarsh spent a day in the store where I worked, he would see that 80% of parents don't care what their children buy. And I've spent far too many hours of my life explaining to people why their children shouldn't be playing Saints Row 2, due to the casual violence and ironic sexism. They buy it and then sound off to anyone who will listen (normally anyone at my store when they come back to complain they didn't realize the game has casual violence and ironic sexism) that games are turning little timmy into a monster.
Basically, our passion is being ruined by people who don't care that we enjoy something we can legally enjoy. And I didn't even say something remotely violent, go me!
Absolutely ridiculous; games promote sexism, racism...homophobia...whatever that woman's argument was, I wasn't really paying attention. I'm pretty sure rock music promoted all that back when it was a thing of the Devil. Tim should have replied with a 'And can you name a game which features racism? A mainstream, marketed one? Can you name a game which features sexism?' That woman would have been left spluttering and lost for words. And from the start, come on! 'Call Of Duty 2: Modern Warfare'? I know the Alan Titchmarsh show is aimed at wasters sat at home halfway through the day but GET. YOUR. FACTS. STRAIGHT! (Hey, I'm pretty sure Julie would accuse me of homophobia for that last CAPS-rant.) And as for kids playing violent games - who cares? I'm 14 and play violent games such as GTA, BioShock, Fallout 3 and Saints Row 2 every day. I have asked my family if they think I am a depressive, violent maniac. Many of them said yes, but that's not concerning my gaming.
If Julie's point is accurate, then I'm going to buy myself a gun, head on down to the nearest Tesco and start blasting. Luckily, I'll have my 'gaming' ailment to blame for my spree and I'll probably undergo therapy for three months, under the pansy system of government Julie doubtlessly supports.
The fact that there was 3 people that have no clue within the industry, and one guy that does.
Shows that the whole event was totally biased and tv-junk at getting people to see "Oh look, games are bad.. this guy cant hold it up".
One guy against three is not only unfair, but totally biased. Especially as Alan (the host of the actual show) was jumping on the hate-games boat too.
The underlining problem with this, and for the world as an whole to be honest. Is that Parents do not give a toss if their kids play these games. It's getting them off the streets at night, thats all they see that is happening. They are the ones who are committing the illegal s**t, buying their kids 18-rated games is OBVIOUSLY going to have a negative effect on them. Its just common sense, You don't need a f**king analyst/experiment to provide that.
More adverts aimed directly to the parents will sort it out. Actually tell them what the effects an 18-rated game is having on a 13-year old boy.
If their kid is off the street and in their home. They dont give a monkeys.
Thats it!, simple as it gets.
Fair play to tim, though you probably knew before you even went on the show you wouldn't be getting a unbiased fight. :/
He said Left 4 Dead 2 as if it was a football score. Alan Titchmarsh in an unedjucated cnut. Yes that is spelt wrong, mainly because Titchdick is such a clown that he might read it correctly, or perhaps has dyslexia. CVG and Computer Games, We love you. Lets put it this way, if gamers had a fight with Alan Dickmarsh, who do you think would win both with fisticuffs and an intellectual arguement about the pros and cons of gaming.
This was not justified and almost a public-shaming of the Gaming industry and all the people who work for it. Including Tim Ingham.
Contacting OFCOM for a public inquiry will do much more damage then sending emails to a guy who will not probably forward them to the respective person in charge.
Im a games tester, and after viewing that damn video it was like the show was installing a front of shame onto the public for playing videogames. But also installing shame into every person who works on the games industry for producing these games.
The ratings team have their own private panel of judges who play the games, and also external judges too. They are tight in getting games classified. The parents are in the wrong doing for walking into videogame stores and buying their kids 18+ rated games. Not us for making them.
That woman spoke about Modern Warfare 2's 'No Russian' level as if she thought it was real people who had been killed. 'Do you know how much grief you caused the computerised object's close computerised objects?!' Ah well, at least Tim owned her with twin hammer blows of knowledge and reason, informing her wisely about the option to skip the level. Ah well, I've never seen that woman's self-righteous, arrogant face before and I'm never going to see it again - she's probably some washed-up TV personality who felt the need to attach herself to some diluted moral crusade as she felt her career slipping down the sink with the suds. If she's against 'violence for entertainment', what does she watch? Think about it - virtually every TV show/film you can name contains violence. Too bad people like her think all games are about murder and racial hate. I want to see her face blown up to epic proportions on a billboard - preferably in London somewhere - with the slogan 'I Know Nothing'. 'Cause, y'know, she doesn't.
Tim you have balls... going on the show knowing they are all ready to shoot you down... you held your ground and stuck to the relevant argument... they on the other hand are the defintion of retarded as when analyzing arguments yours kicks the s**t out of all of them... good work! peace out
I'm not an aggressive person. I have high self esteem I'm not corrupted by them.
I personally feel they have little valid argument. I work in a games shop and we're extremely strict on the age ratings on a game. I turned down at least 10 people today for games above the age they were.
It's the parents fault. Simple as that. The vast majority of the young children don't buy these games themselves, they can't, they either don't have the money or get refused. Parents/Guardians buy it for them. I know this from extended observation and experience from working. Ratings are there, right in front of them. Parents know the rating, hell, parents know the content on the games. The amount of times I've seen a mother purchase a copy of GTA and Gears of War and CoD etc, upon me asking if they're aware of the content in the games, they, no joke, 95% of the time will reply "Oh yes" and some even go onto say "yeah, he/she's got all the other ones"
And, okay, let's consider the purchasing phase is somehow out of the equation and now these games are in the household. Do parents never look at the TV, concerned at their children smiling gleefully as they shoot civilians on the game? Parents see their kids play these games. It is a fact. You can't honestly say that any parent will not once glance at the TV when a child is playing their console. Do the parents do anything about it? Most of the time no.
If parents were that bothered, the parental controls are available, the games ratings are there in full, with details on the sort of content.
So, in terms of younger children being subjected to this content, like 9-14 year olds, it's hilarious to see that the parents who are complaining are the ones who are actually responsible.
My argument is a little harder justify with older gamers, like 15-17 year olds, but surely at that age you should have enough sense to know what content you subject yourself to.
",,,Call of Duty 2, Modern Warfare..." He says it like it's 2 different games (which they are, technically).
The whole segment was disgusting! I played 18 rated games when I was a kid, was it right? NO! Am I a violent racist? HELL NO!! The worst bit for me was watching Tim fighting an impossible fight...but I think he kept his cool BRILLIANTLY and should get an apology off ITV. They invited him there for his professional opinion only to ignore him completely and attack HIM because they dont like violence in video games!?
If enough of us complain, they would have to make a public comment and it most likely will be an apology. Having people criticise a media they nothing about and basically burn Tim alive EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A PERFECTLY GOOD ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING THEY THREW AT HIM!!!
None of these people seemed gto grasp that all of these concerned parents are the ones at fault, for probably buying their kids the games in the first place!
naaah thats too much of a home truth for them, then the audience wouldnt be so quick to applaud and shout out as alot of em would be hypocrites, cos i can bet you now alot of em were s**ttin it that audience beggin for the "its the parents job to make sure" topic no too come up, i love how the other 2 side stepped wen the parent topic got brought up
Imagine how much life would such if that woman was your mum. Her kids probably have issues but she won't accept any blame herself so attacks games instead.
When Tim said he didn't have kids you could feel the entire audience go 'ahh of course...'.
icp had the same old story about there music making people kill. if you kill your crazy in the 1st place. if people stop trying to blame games music or movies for what people do and start tryin to find ways to help stop the killings or violence maybe we wouldet have old hags like that b1tch talking out her ass. games make people violent BULLSH1T.
"Games encourage Racism, sexism and horrific violence"
I mean What The F**K!?
Julie peasegood is an absolute Autist, she knows f**k all about the industry which is proving valuable for this country at the time. Sexism? How the f**k do they encourage that? Racism? Im sorry she's just sprouting s**t now. Horrific Violence is onlyin games like NGII.
The old bloke came across as nice, until i realsied he was the editor of the sun!
Bunch of old w****rs! not even my nan would sprout this s**t and she's the most hardcore pacifist you'll meet!
Im only in my second year of teenageing and i know more than these blokes about Games, our country's history ect
I'm going to say this once and once only; what would a dildo expert, a gardener and a tabloid editor responsible for the 'Gotcha' headline and the lies about Hillsborough know about video games?
No game has ever made me feel depressed/angry/suicidal/homicidal/racist (unless you count chickens as a race, bloody Zelda, I hate those chickens so much!) and yet that show managed it in the space of seven minutes! I wanted to kill Alan and the woman because I was angry, kill myself because I was depressed at the state this country and its television is in and I was already a racist because of the whole chicken thing (see above).
I’m totalled appalled by the level of ignorance in this country and not just concerning the computer games debate. Argument and debate can be a wonderful thing if it’s well researched and properly presented but this piece of complete crap that ITV call broadcasting is just disgusting.
One guy against three is not only unfair, but totally biased. Especially as Alan (the host of the actual show) was jumping on the hate-games boat too
Actually, I would say it’s unfair the other way. Tim was not only better prepared than them but he seemed to be the only who had prepared an argument at all. Plus there’s my sneaking suspicion that his IQ was higher than everyone else’s in the room. Combined.
I do have to say though, as much as I applaud your efforts to defend the games industry CVG, I wonder whether it needs defending. It seems to be doing pretty well in spite of these washed up celebrity idiots and bored middle-aged housewives.
I do agree however that the children-adult games debate needs to happen but only in a proper forum that includes receptive parents, government officials, rating boards and members of the games industry (notice I didn’t think ‘sex advisors’ were necessary) and only when discussed in conjunction with other forms of entertainment such as cinema, because at the moment, this very serious problem is being blamed on the games industry alone.
It’s always been the case (and always will be the case probably) that people don’t like to take responsibility for things that are clearly their fault. And I suspect that, if we were to have a serious discussion about this subject, we might find that a lot of the blame (though, to be fair, not all) actually lies with the parents.
Call me old fashioned but if you let your ten year old son play an 18 rated game, you are quite simply a bad parent. And no government legislation or daytime TV slanging match is going to change that. Spending two minutes with this generation of consoles would allow you to set up very simple and effective parental controls, which would scupper any attempt the little tyke makes to borrow Dead Space off his mate at school and sneak it home in his backpack.
But to be honest, this was never really about games in the first place for these people, was it? (Well, except Tim.) Instead, it was about some has-been TV show host going for sensationalist polemic for a slight increase in ratings, an actress-who-can’t-act-so-became-a-sex-advisor...person who just needs a little bit more attention to get her through the day and some guy who clearly just wandered into the wrong set and was too embarrassed to leave.
I love this country. I really do.
Anyway, I’m off to go and learn how to be racist by playing GTA. But which one? The one starring the African American, the one starring the Chinaman or the one starring the eastern European?
er Tim...You did well buddy but don't fight ignorance with ignorance, It's not easy to buy the argument "you'll not see the sort of violence in games that you see in torture porn movies Like Saw" When I've just finished playing through Saw on the PC...
One point they left out though... In fact no one seems to bring it up. They say things like "modern warfare glorifys violence" but surely that depends on the gamers pre existing disposition towards violence. MW2 didn't make me think war was cool and sexy and glorious, it looked dirty, cold and nerve shredding. It's hardly an advert for violence. Or Omaha Beach on MOH, One of the most violent levels of any game I've ever played, did anyone come out of that level thinking "wow, killing people is awesome !!"
Argh, this s**t makes me so angry. They didn't let Tim get in a good point without telling the audience to f**king boo him! And they wouldn't listen to the reasonable answers he was giving. I've played videogames since I was 7 and I'm hardly a violent person. I'm more talk than action. And my cousin has been playing since he was 5, he's 12 now, he owns a ps3 and he constantly plays "Call Of Duty 2: Modern Warfare" (WTF?), he's not violent. Why can't idiotic people get it into their thick skulls that violence in our kids is a result of bad parenting?
Julie Peasgood "I am categorically against violence for entertainment" So your past career was just a minor mistake sweetheart? Shakespeare is merely glorified Mills and Boon? But you've left the RSC behind now haven't you deary? Oh yes, now you've reached the heady heights of daytime TV 'Sex Expert' and you've got the whole video games industry 'sussed' with your OAP studio audience applauding your 'facts'.
Having said that, Tim was f**king useless as we can expect and to top it all off, it's from a two bit, s**t wank of a show hosted by everyone's favourite wet blanket: Alan 'Widow Twanky' Titchmarsh.
f**k me - is this what it's come to for front page video gaming news?
Broadcasting Code: These rules not only cover harm and offence, but also other areas like impartiality and accuracy, sponsorship and commercial references as well as fairness and privacy.
So, basically what i'm saying is... "Let's 'kin have 'em!!"
There are valid arguments on both sides but this wasn't the forum for a proper debate. Too little time and guests (Tim excepted) with inadequate gaming and other social knowledge. I do believe the woman said something like she is against "violence as entertainment in any form". Sorry missus, but you can't be taken seriously unless you include some serious qualifications, or else Tom and Jerry would be banned too. Anyway, I just can't take Alan Titchmarsh seriously so there ends my comment.
I can't believe they had a debate about violent video games with a gardener,a geriatric who was trying his best but ultimately had no idea and a woman who is clearly too pumped up on her own hormones and smug moral superiority to think clearly. Jesus he might as well have the same arguement with Captain Planet, Dungeon Master and Wonder Woman for all the good it did him.
Why are people so lasy to blame games industry for violence in kids yes games can be violent and sometimes it can be extreme but if you cant take responsibility to be a decent parent and watch over your kids when watchin films and playin games then you have got no right to blame any industry for your mistakes.
I dont understand the argument of violence in games as with what tim ingham said there are a wealth of books out there with violence beyond imagination which you are required to picture in order to understand the story, I have seen plenty of horror movies that made me gross out or cringe and just thought there was no need for it and just because one game pushed the line slightly in the ethics of society which is laughable compared to the pain and suffering which is happening right now in the world that we just brush under the carpet.
If these people are stupid enough to make an argument of games theres now way they would win the pursuit of games is a pursuit of what people a capable of creating games are created for enjoyment nothing and nothing more if its boring it isent created the increase of violence in games is because of society.
Games arnt the fuel of agression their a release and i would rather get rid of stress and anger playing a game than go down the pub get drunk and start a fight with a random person.
The interesting thing for me watching it was seeing Tim (a supposed "racist, sexist and violent" man due to his "interaction" with video games) actually being the calmest, most rational and level headed person there!
The BAFTA's are a very prestigious award that have been around for over 60 years. Surely the fact that they have been acknowledging video games since 1998 goes to show how far the media has come and how seriously it is taken. Someone even said on the show that the average gamer is 33 yrs old - so why do these blinkered people still believe that gaming is just a children's past time, like playing with Lego and Barbie? When the BAFTA's award a 'Fellowship award' to Shigeru Miyamoto it is as poignant and significant as when Walt Disney was awarded an Academy Honorary Oscar back in 1931.
They completely ignored the point he was trying to make, because they're bent on blaming someone other than the parents who should be watching and moderating what their children are doing. Diversionary tactics to get a reaction from the crowd and justify their argument, even if it's flawed and inprecise.
Children should be monitored by their parents, they will get up to no good, that's what certification is for. Watching movies, reading books and even listening to music. Keeping a watchful eye si part of parenting. It seems that most parents pass off on their responsibilities and just blame everyone but themselves.
None of these people seemed gto grasp that all of these concerned parents are the ones at fault, for probably buying their kids the games in the first place!
I put off watching this cos I had a horrible feeling that Tim had tried to look cool and ended up making the industry look a bit childish.
I just watched it and that's not the case at all. Everyone in that building had already made their mind up and so Tim was on a hiding to nothing. He did a great job of not stooping to their level though and just telling them to go f**k themselves.
It actually shocks me how out of touch many of the older generation that work in the public eye are. I know the crowd where getting into it a bit, but I know plenty of older people who really don't think in that way.
You should have asked that blonde bird if she had a wii. I bet she does but they don't count that as videogames do they?
the fact that they give the most boring tit on tv his own talk show is a winner! christ im pretty sure groundforce got better after he hung up his shovel!
I'm really loving the potential uprising here As well as posting on their forum, http://forums.itv.com/thread/918302.aspx I've contacted OFCOM with the same stuff. Let's see what happens
I can really see this being the trigger for the gaming industry being brought to mainstream headlines, and maybe, just maybe, some actual discussion and advice to parents instead of parents just using gaming as a scapegoat for their lacking parental failings.
the other point i didnt agree with was when mckenzie mentioned about jon venables used to play violent games. as if the 2 were linked.
I think that linking a child killer with games brings up a whole diffrent political debate, more so in the social aspects of his area.
Most problem children come from a area where there is not much in the way of government support, or the familys are living in poverty. THATS THE PROBLEM NOT VIOLENT GAMES!
If the goverment tackled this and looked after people better then familys would unbreak 'BROKEN BRITIAN', not that i necessarly think that britian is broken, but more can always be done......
It was a bit pointless if you ask me. The clucking hens that watch this show are absolutely incapable of thinking critically. The odds of you changing their collective minds in a 7 minute segment were nil.
At least you were accurate in your response. It could have gone a lot worse.
Having myself just written an article for a gaming site with regards to some corners of our society and their often ill-informed attitude towards video games, it comes as no surprise that this wholly one-sided look at the industry came about; particularly on something as vacuous as the Alan Titchmarsh show.
Kudos to you, Tim. Even as your sound and well informed point of view was conviently swept under the carpet by Alan's other guests, (and a somewhat ignorant audience who we're clearly directed to boo and hiss at your ever word), I applaud your effort in standing your ground.
It's always worth remembering that Alan Titchmarsh and others like him will come and go. Video games will always be here.
Evil violent games dont make evil violent kids. Just the evil violent kids play violent games because they have no other release or anything else to relate to.
Why Tim Didnt turn around and attack them, e.g. ask them what expeirence do they have of video games , ask them to explain Ratings etc. i dont have childern so i dont proclaim to be an expert etc.So how did u get on this show to speak about a subject you dont have a clue about. And then ask how someone in their sixties can understand something they have zero expeirence of. Finally turn around and say because you lack the will to understand a subject you are afraid of it and are scare mongering and it pain simple ignorant and you ou are playing to the masses with nothing to backup you arugement other than hot air and BS.
Can't believe the utter lies presented in the programme especially by Kelvin MacKenzie.
Saying one of the Bulger killers, Jon Venables was "corrupted" by videogames was simply outrageous. There have been reports of him being influenced by the Child's Play movies, but not games.
Here are some of the games out in the year they committed the murders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_in_video_gaming
Can't see anything particularly dangerous there...
Kelvin MacKenzie was also the editor of The Sun newspaper when they published lies about the Hillsborough tragedy.
Then Julie Peasgood, who starred in Brookside. Remember the soap that had storylines about a father raping his own daughter, who was then killed and buried under the patio... Not to mention all the murders, kidnappings, sieges etc.
She's also appeared in a horror film - House of the Long Shadows.
Doesn't seem to have a problem with violence when it's in TV programmes / films she's being paid to act in....
...and then Alan Titchmarsh practically saying that kids couldn't watch 18 films as they couldn't get in to the cinema, but games are available in the home. Good job nobody has invented 18+ DVDs then...
In all - total nonsense - shame the demographic who watch this cr@p are of an age that didn't grow up with games, or they'd be able to see this biased show for what it was.
videos of idiots like this are more likely to push me to the edge and kill someone. Well done Tim for fighting what was always going to be a losing battle.
How many times did he have to mention about the fact that games are rated the same way as films and should not be in the hands of kids in the first place. If these idiots would admit this fact all they're other arguments fall down.
In a way I hope all the ignorant morons that would watch this and agree go home and smarten up on the games their kids are playing then they wont be able to blame the fact their kids are retarded on games.
''Lets come back in ten years to see if Kelvin's predictions come true''? Alan, my dirty little gardening friend, in ten years time, most of your audience will be pushing daisies
Ok people, this topic really winds me up. The level of ignorance some people have regarding games is truly baffling, and this is yet another example of how misinformed people can really be. Tim - great job at fighting our corner.
It amazes me that people argue that video games make people violent. Take a little look at the history of the human race and I think you'll find that violence has been present from day one. We've been at war with ourselves for thousands of years, so how can violent games be blamed for violence in people today?
How much violence occurs in the world where video games has absolutely nothing to do with it? I really wish people would focus on real issues.
"On Friday 19th March 2010, The Alan Titchmarsh Show held a very one-sided discussion on 'violent video games'. They brought on Tim Ingham to discuss the matter, but all they did was disagree with all of his statements regarding the violence in video games. It was pretty clear from the off that Alan Titchmarsh & guests had very little knowledge of the subject at hand, and yet didn't take into account any valid points Tim mentioned. It was really disgraceful and I'm hoping Alan Titchmarsh apologizes on his show for the treatment of Tim Ingham."
"On Friday 19th March 2010, The Alan Titchmarsh Show held a very one-sided discussion on 'violent video games'. They brought on Tim Ingham to discuss the matter, but all they did was disagree with all of his statements regarding the violence in video games. It was pretty clear from the off that Alan Titchmarsh & guests had very little knowledge of the subject at hand, and yet didn't take into account any valid points Tim mentioned. It was really disgraceful and I'm hoping Alan Titchmarsh apologizes on his show for the treatment of Tim Ingham."
Here's hoping everyone does the same...
I've done the same aswell. Also stated that MacKenzie's statement regarding Venables being corrupted by video games were dismissed by the Home Office and the police during the murder investigation. ITV should have edited that comment out before it was aired due to it's inaccuracy.
I really want to play that 'videogame nasty' ManHunt.
I've always been intrigued over just how violent that game really was. Wasn't the sequel banned indefinitely?
No. Rockstar overturned it on appeal and was released on the Wii and Playstation 2 a couple of years ago. Didn't sell well though as far as I remember.
Hmm, my kid could play a game (age rated) or come home from school put on ITV and see that woman showing various sex toys. You should have mentioned that games consoles have parental controls and can have time limits for their use set. It gets on my nerves that we as gamers have to defend our hobby to ill informed headline grabbers.
Hmm, my kid could play a game (age rated) or come home from school put on ITV and see that woman showing various sex toys. You should have mentioned that games consoles have parental controls and can have time limits for their use set (Oh wait, you did but they didn't hear that did they?). It gets on my nerves that we as gamers have to defend our hobby to ill informed headline grabbers.
Superbly and calmly defended Tim. Congratulations on putting the absolutely valid points across so well in what was obviously an entirely uneducated and biased studio.
"But you can't stop them getting in to homes and putting a video on, but you can stop them at a cinema." It seem Alan isn't aware we've had home video for 30 odd years...
Poor Tim Treated like a freaking pantomime villain. I was half expecting that woman to come out with "Won't you please think of the children!".
What a bunch of ignorant fools. Using the Bulger killers as an example for children affected by video games? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the movie Childsplay that was the scapegoat for that?
Where do you think inspiration for these 'violent video games' come from? Switch on the news, sweetheart, you'll see far more shocking images on there than you will in Call of Duty 2 Modern Warfare...
she was talking about the airport mission where you kill inocent people. But it gives you the option at the start of the game not to and if you look at it in contect.
I'll reply in short as most of the comments posted already satisfied me greatly and calmed the pent up anger I have after watching that tosh. Nothing but politically correct trash. Well done Tim and well articulated.
The level depth and thought put into all the posts on this subject prove to me that gamers are intelligent, passionate and very emotional when our pastime is attacked in such a one sided way. That stupid woman has no idea what she talking about. Who is she to mention about games?
I have been gaming for over 20 years and it has never affected me in any negative way. The level at which they were describing gaming was horrific. Ok yes some games are violent, but rightly so given the context of some of them. They are certainly not gratuitous, well perhaps GTA 4 is but I still love it. I think these people can't comprehend the full reasons why gaming is so popular when in their ancient generation they compare gaming to watching a Western? Pathetic.
The game industry is single handedly keeping this country alive in this economic downturn and it's just another cheap shot at finding a scapegoat for "violence" in our children
Hit the nail on the head there mate, and also about films not been interactive are'nt these 3D movies in some way interacting with the audience
also as my missus has just pointed out is it appriote for these women on Dancing on Ice to be wearing suspenders to dance in, im sure young kids are watching
Firstly, I'd just like to share my sympathy with Tim. I can easily imagine that this may well have been a frustrating experience. I hope you have better luck in the future.
Secondly, I think it's a shame that most debates on television don't provide thoughtful, calm and rational debate. As with this debate, usually the guests get emotional and resort to attacking each other, they don't listen patiently to each other, and they make generalisations and assertions of factual statements that are in truth disguised arguments. I wish television debates would be chaired by someone intelligent, properly informed and able to lead a decent discussion or debate.
Thirdly, it is sad to see that once again videogames are not being discussed maturely but instead are being slandered, scapegoated and discussed unintelligently.
Lastly, I agree with the GameOverThinker on one point here: we, as gamers, journalists and so on, should be careful about who and which arguments we engage with. If people generalise, use rhetoric to mask arguments and speak from ignorance, then we should ignore them.
The woman went for cheap cheers from the Grandma audience who have eaten up all the Loose Women propaganda about video games converting children to Nazism and exploding babies.
The fact is that the further we stay away from these arguments, the better. There's no point jumping into an argument that is so one sided. But Tim, you did well. You were balanced, well-spoken and fair.
The real fact is that in times of an ailing economy and struggling businesses, the last thing we need to do is put locks and bans on things. If graphics ever get to the level of real life - which they will, possibly next gen, or the one after - then maybe there shoudl be something against using a wii-remote to slice a persons neck open... but what it that's trauma Centre? Such a massive argument.
Anyway, the woman was a tool. I hope someone teabags her,.
also as my missus has just pointed out is it appriote for these women on Dancing on Ice to be wearing suspenders to dance in, im sure young kids are watching
Surely Tim knew he was in trouble when he sat down with the silver brigade. I'm also sure I heard someone from the audience shout a very confused and toothless "house!" at some point during that segment.
Right I've watched it about 8 times now and it doesn't get any better. I think everything has been said already but just wanted to say well done Tim you came across very well.
I think everyone who was offended by this should get involved and give ITV some s**t.
Obviously this isn't the first time I've seen ignorant people campaign against games because they don't understand and refuse to even try, but it's the first time I've seen it done with such a ridiculous amount of bias. Squashing my outrage for one second, I just wanted to congratulate you on how well you argued your points. Frankly I don't see how you could've done any better, which demonstrates just how unbalanced the panel and audience were. I don't think many gamers would've done very well at all arguing against Alan Titchmarsh who, let's face it, acts like he's been brought to life from a commemorative plate, and Ms Peasgood, who presents her preposterously dubious and utterly unfounded argument atop the moral foundation of sex advice novels. But hey, when a debate on games opens with the presenter incorrectly stating the title of the best-selling game of all time you've got to expect the worst.
Call of Duty 2. Fcuk me, cutting edge Alan. Julie is a joke, she just about sums up ITV for me. She's also just saying sensational stuff to get applause from the audience. I'm going to be a parent this summer. When my child gets to an age when he/she can play games, I for one will monitor what they play. I think parents are more responsible than the kids here. The breakdown of the family unit means that parents spend less time with their kids and have no idea what they are up to. Common sense should prevail, shame that a majority of UK citizens seem to have none...
Come on!! I spat food out at this rubbish! How blind are the general public!! Age restrictions are there for a reason you dumb fu**in re*arded tw*ts!!! I actually based my dissertation on this argument a couple of years ago. It drives me insane how parent's are blaming 18 rated games for their 10 year old's mental attitude. I'm sorry you went on that show. It really pains me to see the reactions people were giving you. Fu*k em. If they can't understand then fu*k em.
In all honesty, without being sexist, 90% of that crowd that agreed with the sexism lady, were Female.
Games that get made are done so legally. There is no need to talk about ethics, as everyone decides to depict things in their own way. Quinten's crazy 88's scene in Kill bill Vol 1 was one of the most violent scene ever, Did that ever get a whole show based on it ? no. Just because games are interactive does not mean they promote violence, hate or sexism. The fact they are interactive just means that involve you in the narative that bit more.
Wow this has a raised a few eyebrows in the cvg com! All i can add is talk about trying to twist every word to get a round of applause from a few 70 something pensioners in the crowd waiting to get home and do some knitting!! thats how easy it is to make something out of nothing.
how about a rating on titchmarches books they're filthy, like they've been written by a man in a trenchcoat. Julie peasgood (who is also filthy) was in a hammer horror film so she can't be all that against screen violence.
Fortunately the video game industry is so big now that it really makes no difference what ill informed idiots on ITV have to say. The government won't mess around with an industry which makes money when they need every pound.
Much respect to Tim for standing up to an entire room full of ignorant bigots. I would probably have walked out after that first round of applause!
Not even the repetition of simple facts (games have age certificates, games are rated, minors shouldn't be playing unsuitable games, etc) could cut through that wall of vitriol. It's always nice to see that we're able to have an intelligent debate and get to the heart of the matter, without resorting to sensational conjecture and back-patting to make us feel better.
wow they continuously missed the point, mary whitehouse there in particular. theres nothing wrong with adult games as there is nothing wrong with adult films. kids shouldnt be playing violent games with 15 and 18 certificates and assuming the store clerk does his job properly it is the parents fault. maybe a generation of parents are trying to shift the blame for their own failures
"On Friday 19th March 2010, The Alan Titchmarsh Show held a very one-sided discussion on 'violent video games'. They brought on Tim Ingham to discuss the matter, but all they did was disagree with all of his statements regarding the violence in video games. It was pretty clear from the off that Alan Titchmarsh & guests had very little knowledge of the subject at hand, and yet didn't take into account any valid points Tim mentioned. It was really disgraceful and I'm hoping Alan Titchmarsh apologizes on his show for the treatment of Tim Ingham."
Here's hoping everyone does the same...
Dude, I hope you don't mind, I copied and pasted your statement and filed a complaint with ofcom as well.
I wrote an email to ITV last night too, forwarded it to CVG as well.
If you want to debate, go in with an open mind, if you go into a debate with your mind already made up and you are not open to discussion, it just turns in to a farce.
Well this has certainly enranged everyone on here - with good reason..
The problem stems not with the argument, but with the show it was aired on. As most people on here have already pointed out, the verdict was made before Tim had chance to answer the first question. This daytime show caters for the senior generation who aren't interested in games, and base their opinions on things they read in newspapers when games get the blame for the latest shooting etc. I bet most of the audience have never played any of these games, so what gives them the right to pass judegment on them. Wouldn't it have been a better argument to let members of the audience actually play some of these games in the studio and them ask them for their opinions. You can't argue about something that you have never experienced yourself.
I have just made my comments to Channel television who take comments on this programme, and urged them to see this page. In short, I found it unbalanced in terms of knowledge, audience and dialogue. Mr Titchmarsh's lack of knowedge is astounding. For as long as I can remember, the BBFC has regulated video game classification. Mortal Kombat 2 was an 18 back in the mid 1990s, so for him not to know this undermines his position. Ms Peasgood has clearly not played these games to understand how we relate to the stories, to characters, and how we gamers understand the concept of who we attack, who we defend. Left 4 Dead 2 for example, we battle hordes of those who have lost their humanity, we fight to preserve hope and life, not kill for the sake of it, we fight because we have to. Mr McKenzie also displays a lack of knowledge, and my comments to Channel television included the fact that in effect this was 3 on 1 discussing, with an audience unsuitable for such a debate. Never in this discussion by Mr Titchmarsh, Ms Peasgood or Mr Mckenzie praise the gaming industry for it's creativity, technological development and contribution to the economy and learning, or the awards from BAFTA. CVG and others, I suggest a petition for an apology or at the least a more constructive debate on this programme as recompense with real gamers and advice on how to check content, maintaining a healthy game/work/life.
Why are the idiots in the audience applauding ignorance? Yes, I'm sure the two old fogies who don't even know what a video game is are far better informed on this issue than, I don't know, a video games journalist?
The woman is the worst though, she clearly has no idea what she is talking about, continuously taking things out of context and just speaking in sound bytes ("no violence for entertainment!" and of course the moronic audience laps it up.
you would of had a better chance of walking into old trafford on game day and convinced 80 thousand man utd supporters they should support liverpool or man city instead than convincing the older generation of people thats games are fun entertaining and are acceptable in todays society.
then again what were they doing themselfs in the 60's and 70's smokeing and taking anything they could, having sex with everything that moved and it was acceptable then, but violent games are wrong.
This piece of television is absurd if taken in the context of a balanced argument/debate, where the other two guests have absolutley no idea about computer games in general - where preconceptions are their idea of evidence.
Also this 'debate' is based on the misconception that because everyone is entitled to their opinion this automatically means it is VALID. Wrong. True everyone may be entitled to an opinion but you wouldn't take an Astrophysicist's scientific opinion on the mechanics of the universe - Backed up with cold hard evidence - and then take Hill Billy Joe's opinion on the matter as fact when backed up with "'cus I think so." all in the name of being entitled to your opinion and "Balance".
I personally like the way that Titchmarsh suggests that video games are more violent than the spaghetti westerns of old; yes Alan, this may be true. However the spaghetti westerns of old actually incited racial hatred with their portrayal of native americans and african americans. Then the white americans were portrayed as the "good guys" for killing them when encroaching on land that had been inhabited by the natives for centuries. How is this not worse?
Actually Alan, I think your show is the personification of what is currently wrong with society. Old people.
I've played video game all my life! I owned the likes of perfect dark when it was realised (I was 9). I wouldn't expect my parents (if I were 9 now) to buy me the likes of gta 4 because they're not retarded and can see that it's quite different from the 18-rated games of the 90s.
However I still wasn't 18 when gta 4 came out and enjoyed beating up hookers on 3, vice city and san andreas when i was younger. I shot the innocents in MW2. Most of my collection has a 15 or 18 rating on them.
Despite all of that I have never had a criminal convictions. Never got a detention in school. Am studying law at university and have never wanted to be violent towards anyone.
That is until I heard the words coming out of that woman's voice.
So you tell me. what really causes violence in our youth?
Dude, I hope you don't mind, I copied and pasted your statement and filed a complaint with ofcom as well.
I wrote an email to ITV last night too, forwarded it to CVG as well.
If you want to debate, go in with an open mind, if you go into a debate with your mind already made up and you are not open to discussion, it just turns in to a farce.
No worries mate, I'm just happy to see that everyone seems to be doing something!
Well this has certainly enranged everyone on here - with good reason..
The problem stems not with the argument, but with the show it was aired on. As most people on here have already pointed out, the verdict was made before Tim had chance to answer the first question...
Quite. And surely Titchmarsh should have been more impartial, given that he was the host. Instead of challenging both sides of the argument, he instead jumped on the bandwagon with the other two guests and proceeded to join in with the dressing down.
Frankly it's disgrace, and I'll also be sending a complaint to OFCOM.
if anyone wants to leave comments google in itv forums titchmarsh. the top link is a page to the forums, and there are 2 pages one entitled video games and violence and the other is titchmarsh had his day? please post comments on them, as i feel itv need to listen to what backlash they have coming to them.
oh and the youtube viewings of that video is fantastic.....
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fldvLYLeGrk
As well as posting on their forum, http://forums.itv.com/thread/918302.aspx I've contacted OFCOM with the same stuff. Let's see what happens 
