Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption is reportedly experiencing "huge problems" in development, thanks to large unrest at its San Diego office.
According to Joystiq's Rockstar sources, an uncomfortable atmosphere fills the San Diego site after the majority of the Midnight Club team was allegedly laid off.
If it's true, we'll assume it hasn't affected the game too much - because what CVG's seen of the Western-themed shooter is pretty mouth watering. We get our hands on it later this month - and you'll be first to know our verdict.
"The functional team that was Midnight Club was shattered," the source claims. "All the people who didn't quit or get fired were thrown onto Red Dead Redemption, many of them being demoted.
"The completely dysfunctional team that is RDR was put to top priority," the source adds. "The people who had floundered on that project or outright screwed it up were promoted and are now in complete control of the studio, and they're running it into the ground."
'Running it into the ground'? Sounds a little too dramatic to us.
Whatever the state of the game, it certainly sounds as if its development has left some people very aggrieved indeed.
One source went as far as claiming that Redemption "was a complete disaster for most of 2009 and previous ... it has since turned around a little bit, but there are huge problems with it still."
No, honestly, say what you really think.
Another added: "Red Dead [Redemption] has been in production for six years (mainly because of horrible management/lack of direction due to fear of disrespecting Rockstar NY) and it will never get the money back in sales it cost to create for those six years."
According to the moles it will take 5 million sales at full price to recoup Red Dead's mammoth development cost, but "the good news is they [Rockstar] are not expecting to make money with Red Dead Redemption. At this point, that project is just supposed to prove that the San Diego studio can make a great quality AAA title."
Despite how good Red Dead Redemption actually looks, there are too many voices coming out of Rockstar to ignore San Diego's rocky situation. We'll let you know if this develops.
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
A real shame, if true. I was (and still am) looking forward to RRR, but I'll definitely have to check the reviews before picking it up....if it's utterly terrible, I guess I'll be waiting for that GUN sequel.
Sounds like a bitter employee, game so far looks bloody great. And just because there are problems at work doesn't mean work doesn't get done right.
I bet this is nothing compared to what Itagaki and Team Ninja were going through making Ninja Gaiden 2, with law suits and rape charges being thrown around. Suck it up and make the game you are payed to you whiney little ****.
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
Wow, it's been in development for 6 years. Strange how it isn't getting the GT5 treatment from the media...
Personally, I hope everything works out for Rockstar because I am looking forward to RDR. Not to mention the problems that could befall Agent and LA Noire...
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
It's true - I think it was on Eurogamer yesterday. Didn't this all happen at EA a few years back too?
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
This is a crying shame if true. I'd hate to see it fail to reach it's obvious potential because of bad management or in-fighting. Hopefully he's exaggerating.
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
Wow, it's been in development for 6 years. Strange how it isn't getting the GT5 treatment from the media...
Personally, I hope everything works out for Rockstar because I am looking forward to RDR. Not to mention the problems that could befall Agent and LA Noire...
I don't have much hope for LA Noire now, though Agent should be fine (hopefully!), seeing as Sony are involved.
Sounds like a lot is hinging on this title from Rockstar San Diego. Personally I think they will get it right in the end. They always did a great job on Midnight Club and Red Dead Revolver was enjoyable.
Besides some of the greatest music and films ever were created despite tensions between the band or cast. In fact I'd go as far to say as I think a little bit of animosity can sometimes be a very good thing creatively. Let's just hope it's true for games as well.
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
Impossible!
Ok, you caught me... I admit, occasionally I smile.
The game looks absolutely ace. Hope the above isn't too true...
Agreed. I watched the preview on PSN the other night and thought it looked spectacular. It went from a 'very interested' to a 'just about to preorder'.
What I think? I think that a few very pretty looking pics of the game does not provide enough material to decide whether these charges are warranted or not. I also think that morale makes a huge difference and personally I wouldn't want to work at a place where those I perceived to be incompetent or abusive continually got the accolades and power while others deemed more deserving were left out in the cold. True, that will be somewhat subjective, but you can go a long way towards that by examining who did what and how well they did it. Game development has a sexy reputation amongst many today, yet the working conditions are often atrocious by many other industries' standards; I am of the personal opinion that the developers should unionize in order to not have to work 6 days a week up to 12 hours at a time in some cases. If you want 80 hour work weeks join the active military - at least there you get a gun, gear and uniforms.
I'd heard something about this - didn't one of the employees wife complain about the working conditions in the office too?
Thank you, you put a smile on my face with that comment. A wife complaining on behalf of a husband... really, does that kind of crazy behaviour actually happen! You sure you didn't make that up? This is surely madness... what next... a man becoming jealous because of the actions of another!?
It's true - I think it was on Eurogamer yesterday. Didn't this all happen at EA a few years back too?
I think the story was mentioned here on CVG back in Dec. as well, IIRC.
Sounds like a lot is hinging on this title from Rockstar San Diego. Personally I think they will get it right in the end. They always did a great job on Midnight Club and Red Dead Revolver was enjoyable.
Besides some of the greatest music and films ever were created despite tensions between the band or cast. In fact I'd go as far to say as I think a little bit of animosity can sometimes be a very good thing creatively. Let's just hope it's true for games as well.
A fair point. "Deus Ex" is a classic case of just that sort of tense environment between the top brass on the project, and it turned out to be one of the greatest games ever made. Indeed, it has been voted by some game publication(s) as the greatest game ever made.
It is a shame when you hear of stories like this. Apparently EA are the worst for this kind of treatment to staff. Main factor always being tight bottom publishers (Who we very often love too!)
Personally I think a game should cost what it is worth. I hate the fact that new games immediately cost £30-40 regardless of genre, length of game fulfillment etc. RDR looks like a quality title and a good length of gameplay. games that maintain a longer life should cost more. (Especially if they have taken a certain amount of man hours to develop) If RDR proves to be as good as we hope I'll happily pay £45.00 or even £50.00 but on the flipside I wont be happy to shell out £30.00 for a piece of sh*t like transformers or Call Of Juarez.
I don't think that intimidation / poor working conditions have any place in the development of a videogame. How many people would be comfortable to think that what appears to be a lovingly crafted level was made DESPITE how lovingly its creator was treated by their employers rather than BECAUSE of how lovingly they had been treated? It's not piecework - if they treat their employees like rubbish and with little intelligence then they place an unwinnable dilemma in their employees minds - to knowingly put out an inferior (even deliberately bug laden) product than their imaginations are actually capable of because it will do in terms of satisfying their employers and secretly spite them OR to put out the best product that they can so that they have something that they can be proud to put on their CV to apply to another company, even though they'd have actually preferred to work for their current studio with good management.
But there may be a second side to the story.
Let's not forget that they do work for a very well known studio. Their work will be appreciated by millions. Their wages will be higher than many artists. They've had 6 years to come up with this game. The fact that some of them have got wives should have been left out of it - does that mean that single people have a bit more of a reason to be treated badly? If the good doesn't outweigh the bad enough then is it worth their time to work there?
Rockstar has done some great things eg published Max Payne (and looking forward to Max Payne 3 a lot) but, at the end of the day, they work as part of a group of companies that allows a digitised character to beat up prostitutes in GTA. Niceness probably isn't Rockstar's DNA on the whole.
I still think that Red Dead Redemption looks very nice- any game with a mine cart in it is often good. Red Dead Revolver was pretty good at the time, for a short time, but that kind of game needed less of a linear feel to be highly appreciated.
I'm sure they are not the only developer with such issues. A good firend of mine works with a developer over here in the UK and he does crazy hours.
These days I'm very sceptical in regards to these articles as you dont know what is just 'spin' to help get the game into the publics concious.
How come we didnt hear about these complaints before? Its a shame to hear because I'm a big fan of R* and the work they do but I'm sure those guys are not going to put out a trash game.
I'm looking forward to it personally. Can't wait in fact...
I don't think that intimidation / poor working conditions have any place in the development of a videogame. How many people would be comfortable to think that what appears to be a lovingly crafted level was made DESPITE how lovingly its creator was treated by their employers rather than BECAUSE of how lovingly they had been treated? It's not piecework - if they treat their employees like rubbish and with little intelligence then they place an inwinnable dilemma in their employees minds - to knowingly put out an inferior (even deliberately bug laden) product than their imaginations are actually capable of because it will do in terms of satisfying their employers and secretly spite them OR to put out the best product that they can so that they have something that they can be proud to put on their CV to apply to another company, even though they'd have actually preferred to work for their current studio with good management.
But there may be a second side to the story.
Let's not forget that they do work for a very well known studio. Their work will be appreciated by millions. Their wages will be higher than many artists. They've had 6 years to come up with this game. The fact that some of them have got wives should have been left out of it - does that mean that single people have a bit more of a reason to be treated badly? If the good doesn't outweigh the bad enough then is it worth their time to work there?
<snip>
That may be the case however, also consider that in many private companies individual salaries vary, even drastically, for doing the same job. There's no guarantee that some of those developers aren't just being paid rather average salaries for their given industry, while a few are taking a disproportionate slice of the pie. "So why would someone stay for less pay while doing the same work" you might ask? Well, some of them may not know how much more, or less, the others are being paid. It's standard for many workplaces to forbid open discussion of salaries between staff members (although they can't stop the unofficial talk and rumors). Also, as the mention of a wife indicates, some of them are family men or women and have others' lives partly, if not wholly, dependent on them remaining gainfully employed; as we both likely realise now is not the best of times to be unemployed in many industries....Which is also an entirely plausible reason as to why there may not be as many visible complaints to the public's eye from this industry. That does not however mean that they do not exist.
Wow, it's been in development for 6 years. Strange how it isn't getting the GT5 treatment from the media...
Personally, I hope everything works out for Rockstar because I am looking forward to RDR. Not to mention the problems that could befall Agent and LA Noire...
Wow, it's been in development for 6 years. Strange how it isn't getting the GT5 treatment from the media...
Personally, I hope everything works out for Rockstar because I am looking forward to RDR. Not to mention the problems that could befall Agent and LA Noire...
They are still making La Noire?
I was under the impression that had been postponed indefinitely, if not outright canned?
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
