Polyphony has been shotguning GT5 screenshots out lately, with the latest lot showing a few loose bumpers and open boots. It's almost as if a major competitor is about to release its own racing sim.
GT5's not out until March next year but maybe these shiny cars can distract you from the noise surrounding Forza 3.
Gran Turismo 5
Original production
2:58Hands-on GT5 from Gamescom
Gran Turismo 5
Original production
2:58Hands-on GT5 from Gamescom
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looks good. but they have been "shotgunning" screenshots out steadily. nothing to do with forza - especially since thats on a different console, half a year away... it has no impact.
also truely hate doors flapping about as you drive. hated it in GTA IV. looks retarded, and never happens in real life.
shouldnt be as bad in c**kpit view. IV's in-car view was mince - looked like you were driving a powerboat along the streets, best played in third person anyway.
digital foundry has seen GT's damage model since it was first shown. they say it has made "big, big improvements".
What about normal everyday production cars though?
Normal everyday production cars will have similar damage to Forza 3; bumps and scrapes, etc. Over 200 of the racing spec cars will have full damage, which includes bits falling off and c**kpit damage.
Can't wait to see what they pull out of the bag next year.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
Normal everyday production cars will have similar damage to Forza 3; bumps and scrapes, etc. Over 200 of the racing spec cars will have full damage, which includes bits falling off and c**kpit damage.
Can't wait to see what they pull out of the bag next year.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
Nothing to see here people. Move along *whistles*
I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
Nothing to see here people. Move along *whistles*
It's an easy misconception because the details appeared to have been lost in translation.
It has now been confirmed that all cars will have damage, though only 200+ will have 'full' damage, whatever that entails.
Apparently PD have said that they want to go beyond what fans are expecting, which is why it was delayed.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
Nothing to see here people. Move along *whistles*
I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had car damage on cars from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had very basic minor damage that proves that cars are safe and won't kill you from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I fixed this for you...
Only games with fantasy cars have had full body deformation etc - and notice how those games don't have actual drivers that can also be deformed?
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had very basic minor damage that proves that cars are safe and won't kill you from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I fixed this for you...
Only games with fantasy cars have had full body deformation etc - and notice how those games don't have actual drivers that can also be deformed?
C.
Well Toca has had full damage along with colin mcrae and they were not really fantasty cars. Also Forza has damage on all cars. In fact TOCA 3 has a very very impressive damage model.
And what part of GT5s damage model makes it look as if cars are not safe? (stupid argument by the way) The cars do not even have dents on them!
Also the argument was regarding the statement that polyphony put out a while ago that manufacturers did not want damage on their cars. At no point did my argument include anything about the technical side of damage modeling.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
Nothing to see here people. Move along *whistles*
I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had car damage on cars from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
Yeah, it's a bit of a strange one, although I can't really see any other reason why they wouldn't include full damage on all the cars as it's been one of the biggest criticisms of previous GT's. If they had the manufacturers permission, surely a full damage model would be one of the first things they would've put in the game.
What about normal everyday production cars though?
As far as I know there's only damage available for certain cars (all the racing cars, I'd imagine). It's a poor effort on their part if you ask me, with the length they've been working on it, they have no excuse for not having damage on every car.
Though I could be completely wrong.
EDIT: After reading Marks post, it looks like I was wrong. oops.
Nothing to see here people. Move along *whistles*
I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had car damage on cars from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
Yeah, it's a bit of a strange one, although I can't really see any other reason why they wouldn't include full damage on all the cars as it's been one of the biggest criticisms of previous GT's. If they had the manufacturers permission, surely a full damage model would be one of the first things they would've put in the game.
It may be more down to graphics. To put damage in the game requires more processing power and therefore may well have an impact on the graphics engine.
Personally in a driving simulator I would rather have more realistic physics than better graphics.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had very basic minor damage that proves that cars are safe and won't kill you from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I fixed this for you...
Only games with fantasy cars have had full body deformation etc - and notice how those games don't have actual drivers that can also be deformed?
C.
Well Toca has had full damage along with colin mcrae and they were not really fantasty cars. Also Forza has damage on all cars. In fact TOCA 3 has a very very impressive damage model.
And what part of GT5s damage model makes it look as if cars are not safe? (stupid argument by the way) The cars do not even have dents on them!
Also the argument was regarding the statement that polyphony put out a while ago that manufacturers did not want damage on their cars. At no point did my argument include anything about the technical side of damage modeling.
Rally, F1 and TOCA games have damage because it is part and parcel of the racing.
On the other hand, it can't be easy having a damage model that suits over 1000 different vehicles.
Well Toca has had full damage along with colin mcrae and they were not really fantasty cars. Also Forza has damage on all cars. In fact TOCA 3 has a very very impressive damage model.
I'll admit - I've not played Toca 3 so am unable to comment on that one...
And what part of GT5s damage model makes it look as if cars are not safe? (stupid argument by the way) The cars do not even have dents on them!
I fear you have inferred something from my post that I did not imply?!
Viper Racing, circa 1998 had a full (if weird) damage model. Very similar to Live For Speed there though, where the panels were almost infinitely flexible.
Colin McRae Rally 2.0, circa 1999. Great damage models there, featuring plenty of breakable parts on a selection of real cars.
Plenty of games have had real cars with working damage models. Now supercar manufacturers might be a little different from standard road cars, but it only takes one to set a precedent. I never got why they always claimed the lack of damage was due to the manufacturers not wanting it included. What did they lose if someone wanted to repeatedly plough their Lambo into a wall to see bits fly off?
I blame it more on modelling limitations in the GT engine, which may also explain why it's only being added to the race-spec vehicles (which could easily be regular road versions with extra bodykit glued over the top, which would fall off to reveal the regular car underneath).
That said, look at the car models in GT5. They are stunning. I wouldn't want people to come along and spoil that either
Well Toca has had full damage along with colin mcrae and they were not really fantasty cars. Also Forza has damage on all cars. In fact TOCA 3 has a very very impressive damage model.
I'll admit - I've not played Toca 3 so am unable to comment on that one...
And what part of GT5s damage model makes it look as if cars are not safe? (stupid argument by the way) The cars do not even have dents on them!
I fear you have inferred something from my post that I did not imply?!
C.
May well have been inferred from the post of mine that you so helpfully changed for me
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had very basic minor damage that proves that cars are safe and won't kill you from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe). Many games have had very basic minor damage that proves that cars are safe and won't kill you from all the manufacturers for quite a few years now.
I fixed this for you...
Only games with fantasy cars have had full body deformation etc - and notice how those games don't have actual drivers that can also be deformed?
C.
Well Toca has had full damage along with colin mcrae and they were not really fantasty cars. Also Forza has damage on all cars. In fact TOCA 3 has a very very impressive damage model.
And what part of GT5s damage model makes it look as if cars are not safe? (stupid argument by the way) The cars do not even have dents on them!
Also the argument was regarding the statement that polyphony put out a while ago that manufacturers did not want damage on their cars. At no point did my argument include anything about the technical side of damage modeling.
Rally, F1 and TOCA games have damage because it is part and parcel of the racing.
On the other hand, it can't be easy having a damage model that suits over 1000 different vehicles.
Damage is part and parcel of any motor racing, be it f1, WRC or chavs racing in the streets.
I'm not really interested too much in the damage after all its a driving simulator not a destruction derby game (would love a new version of that too) anyone with a car or even an ounce of common sense knows one good smash and the car won't go. All I really want from gt5 which is something that always bothered me is skid marks on the track the graphics and handling are already really good. Oh and if they put a cheat "rewind" button in gt5 I wont be getting it.
I'm not really interested too much in the damage after all its a driving simulator not a destruction derby game
I know what you're saying, but any game that calls itself a simulator really needs to have a reasonably realistic damage model.
Oh and if they put a cheat "rewind" button in gt5 I wont be getting it.
I just don't understand comments like this. It's all I hear about Forza 3. No one is forcing you to use the rewind feature. It's there to make the game more accessible for beginners. How could a feature YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE! put you off buying a game?.
I do not think this is an excuse anymore (no matter what Polyphony want to have us believe).
I know a few devs & it's no excuse. Manufacturers are particularly sensitive about it. Especially for example damage intruding on the interiour / driver area, that's a big no no.
I'm not really interested too much in the damage after all its a driving simulator not a destruction derby game.
Hear, hear.
Besides, i don't fancy watching a load of smashed motors in the gorgeous replays, losing it on a fast corner into a destructable tyre wall would look fantastic though and they should make it so that if you do do that, then you're out of the race!
Polyphony "Look we can do damage too, look...look..." big woops! only about 170 odd cars from the 1000 are damageable, that will look good! This game will look pretty, but will be like all the others, boring, sterile and about as fun as ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz
Firstly, an example: GRID Race Driver Real licensed cars Huge damage physics
Thus blowing theory of 'damage only on fictional cars' sky high.
Secondly, Anyone who has watched any level of motorsport knows the last 'items' to leave a car are doors and boots you will have bumpers, grilles, tyres, wheels, lights, glass etc all going long before boots and doors so what the hell are these shots all about?
Do us a favour polyphony leave damage out altogether, release what will no doubt be a good game but don't include some half assed damage model because flying round a track with a door open is just demented. Stick to pretty, and it looks pretty to me, which is nice.
Oh and finally if you are gonna do rallying in this one make it decent not the shambles it was on the old GTs.
These screens are from the TGS version / at that level. They're also heavily photo shopped - lots of motion blur.
Enjoy the screens but seriously - don't use them as a sound reason for debate.
Before I commence on a couple of responses I want to raise a point and question with readers... (P.S. no need for rudeness).
Forza 3 has a huge wealth of new features and while GT5 will have many of those features - it won't have them all. On the other hand, some of the features that Forza 3 has, WILL CERTAINLY be done to a higher standard in GT5. My question is therefore now open... I will be interested to see how magazines rate GT5 for not providing as many features as Forza 3, but for providing the features it does at a higher quality.
What do you think?
Will have to wait and see, but it does beg the question, why release these shot at all?
1) GT5 was announced at E3 & release date at TGS. 2) With the PS3 slim out & GT5 announced, now is a good time to start promoting it (before Xmas rather than after). 3) Forza 3 is being released in ~2 weeks time, so a good time to show a bit of competition.
Remember, they're airbrushed - so they're not being released as representing exact game play... Just promotional.
That said, most people want to see more in game stills & footage. Official screen grabs would be very welcome. Alas, you won't see anything on that or about GT5's new damage model until (at the earliest) the very day that Forza 3 is officially released & out the door. The new damage model is a very closely guarded secret and has been described as "the jewel in GT5's crown". Those who have been lucky enough to visit PD & have seen a glimpse of it are reporting parts being cracked and breaking off in addition to real time deformation at the localised area of impact.
I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
The main reservation is over whether the car is seen to be 'safe' for drivers. If a racing game classed as a simulation can be seen to be killing the driver, then that will throw car manufacturers into panic as mums everywhere become overly concerned about how safe their car is. You can no doubt imagine the uproar from certain (admittedly not very smart) members of the public. Add to that, Jack Thompson would have a field day!
Anyway for the record, at least one other games developer has been asking HOW?!?! Polyphony Digital managed to get away with allowing the doors to fall off in the Gamescon demo (prior to TGS). The answer lays with the roll cage - safeguarding the driver. Provided the roll cage remains intact and the driver is kept 'safe' on all sides, there should be no limit to the amount of damage any car could potentially sustain. Whether or not all cars are fitted with a roll cage however - is another matter. Reports suggest NASCAR cars + WRC cars will be something *very special* indeed.
if they get the damage right, then i think nascar could be great fun. its always good to ram opponents, sandwich them against other cars and walls and fishtail or pit manouver them.
also looking forward to the rally. hope they get the handling right.
this game is either gonna be monumental or a complete balls up.
LVP:- Forza 3 has a huge wealth of new features and while GT5 will have many of those features - it won't have them all. On the other hand, some of the features that Forza 3 has, WILL CERTAINLY be done to a higher standard in GT5... not providing as many features as Forza 3, but for providing the features it does at a higher quality.
This kind of implies that every feature that's in both, will be superior in GT5 in some way. Is that what you're suggesting?
How do you break this down? Both will feature Single Races, Split Screen 2p, Online racing, TimeTrials modes for example. Online racing is certainly better in Forza3.(more game types, the hopper system etc.) Time trial mode's structure is also a lot better in Forza 3. It's not just "Practice" but a game mode in it's own right. Is GT5 going to better those? I don't see how. Is career mode's structure Better in GT5? How would you define this?
Likewise the on track action. It is completely undetermined how much of an improvement over Prologue the driving model in GT5 is. Again, you're making a massive assumption it's going to be better than Forza3's simulation. T10 did benefit from working with people whos entire role in life, is working out tyre physics and simulating driving for Lewis Hamilton's simulator. I don't see how people can dismiss this fact. Who have polyphony worked with to perfect their simulation? Can a room of coders in an office in Japan work out exactly how the contact patch and dynamics of a tyre work better than a dedicated team of Michelin engineers who live for nothing else, and can conduct masses of research using the real thing? I completely agree with Dan G's point that the technology partners are essential in getting things to the level they have.
The rest if it, OK more cars on track is a benefit for GT5 (although it seems to vary, why were there only 10 cars in the race in the TGS demo? I thought it was supposed to offer 16?). Will need to see this working properly online to know if it's actually a good thing.
AI. Is AI going to be better than Forza3's? I don't think you can predict that with any certainty. AI has traditionally been weak in GT games. Needs to be a big step up. Adding elements specific to NASCAR oval racing sounds good, and would be essential to making it any good.
Modifications and upgrades. Is that going to be better in GT5, or more polished? In which case, in what ways to you expect it to be so?
Tuning. Is GT5's tuning going to be deeper and more polished? You can tweak pretty much everything that's tunable in Forza3 already. And you even get things that you can only tweak once you've replaced certain parts with aftermarket race parts. So in what way can GT5 improve tuning?
Tracks. GT5's count is now at 70ish? Forza3 offers many more. Including some massive point to point locations. How many of GT5's 70 will need to be ovals to make Nascar mode worthwhile? How many will be specific for WRC? I don't see GT5 winning on this stat.
Cars. More cars in GT5. More than double. Would love someone to break down how many models in each game are unique cars rather than versions of the same shape. Both games cheat a bit on that.
Visuals. Cars look more real (especially in replays) on GT5, for sure.
Unique features: WRC and NASCAR license, vs, Auction House, Livery Editor, Store Front, community leaderboards for tuners and painters.
I do not expect the on track action and physics to be better in GT5. (Stock car racing will be, if thats' your bag, more cars on track should see to that) It basically comes down to those car models and car lighting, which you only get the full benefit of in replays, and the car count. Are any of the other features going to be quantifiably better?
So I reverse the question. If you expect most shared features to be better and more polished in GT5, can you enlighten us as to in what way you expect them to be so, and why?
These GT5 screenshots are looking very good, but at the moment it seems more like a technical demonstration of the graphical power of the PS3 rather than a good game. More details on the game would be nicer than this flood of screenshots.
Firstly, an example: GRID Race Driver Real licensed cars Huge damage physics
Thus blowing theory of 'damage only on fictional cars' sky high.
Secondly, Anyone who has watched any level of motorsport knows the last 'items' to leave a car are doors and boots you will have bumpers, grilles, tyres, wheels, lights, glass etc all going long before boots and doors so what the hell are these shots all about?
Do us a favour polyphony leave damage out altogether, release what will no doubt be a good game but don't include some half assed damage model because flying round a track with a door open is just demented. Stick to pretty, and it looks pretty to me, which is nice.
Oh and finally if you are gonna do rallying in this one make it decent not the shambles it was on the old GTs.
GRID is a great example of a good damage model as it uses both Production and race standard cars and the damage is top notch. How GT5 can call its self the real simulator when after all these years it still has a p**s poor damage model is beyond me
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I guess it's down to car manufacturers as to whether we see full damage in either series however. Whilst us gamers would love to see it, I can understand the car industry having reservations about it.
