In case you missed it yesterday, a document of minutes was leaked online from a Sega, Sony meeting highlighting several games and events going forward. One of those games was Obsidian's Alpha Protocol, which "Michael Foster, product evaluator, said AP felt barely RPG. Initial level too challenging for players. 'Mass Effect felt more RPG.'"
Alpha Protocol
Official trailer
4:47Walkthrough trailer
Alpha Protocol
Official trailer
4:47Walkthrough trailer
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A day later and, assuming the leak was real, Matthew Rorie, PR man for the developer, has defended the title on the game's official forum. "And yes, I believe the gentleman in the quotes works for SCEA (assuming this is legit).
"As for what he said, obviously we enjoy any feedback that we can get, but without knowing how much of the game he played (and I seriously doubt that someone as busy as a product evaluator for Sony is going to be playing through an entire game if it's as long as Alpha Protocol), it's hard to judge what he meant by those comments. Suffice to say that Alpha Protocol is going to tickle your RPG tastebuds when it's released."
And that's great. But tickling the tastbuds is hardly satisfying them now is it?
I'd rather an ice cold beverage was tickling my taste buds, but each to their own.
On topic, from what I have seen of Alpha Protocol, the visuals seem a little basic compared to other RPG's, like Mass Effect, for example. However, that may be due to the fact that it is a very lengthy, old school type of RPG. If that is the case, then I'm intrigued.
I wouldn't read anything into that comment though.
I’ve been looking forward to this game. Something to get my teeth into that wont just be a 5 minute bash. the only problem i've seen is with bland graphics in office blocks. no imagination. the odd desk / bin placed here and there.
I’ve been looking forward to this game. Something to get my teeth into that wont just be a 5 minute bash. the only problem i've seen is with bland graphics in office blocks. no imagination. the odd desk / bin placed here and there.
If you want a 5 minute bash, may I recommend 'you porn'?
As much as I like the concept, i've seen nothing of it so far that suggests it'll live up to the potential idea. Hopefully I'll be wrong and it'll be the spy equivalent of Mass Effect, in which case I shall weep tears of joy.
I think the biggest problem AP is going to have is that it's always going to be compared to Mass Effect. This is probably a shame, since ME has a fanbase already and it's very similar ground both games inhabit.
If Obsidian can pull off what Bioware did then there's no reason that the market won't support both games. After all, we have a billion Square Enix RPGs out there with very little difference between them, and people still buy them.
"It's hard to judge what he meant by those comments"? Hardly. It seems quite evident that the Sony chap didn't think that the time he spent with it revealed much in the way of an RPG. Now, whether the fellow spent enough time with AP to give it a fair shake, or whether he has what can be considered standard/classic notions of what makes an RPG are other aspects to consider, but the feedback he left seems quite straight forward: Essentially AP strikes him as even more action-oriented than "Mass Effect" which had a limited RPG element (but was deeply engrossing nonetheless). Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
To be honest, Obsidian has managed to dissapoint me with every game they have made going all the way back to KOTOR 2.
Whilst I'm sure my opinion may difer from others. Their previous games just couldn't hold a candle to the originals they were sequels to.
Maybe this is the game that can set them apart as a decent developer. However from what I have seen of this game so far, I am erring on the side of caution.
IMO KotOR2 was a much deeper RPG than the original, it's just a pity they didn't get time to finish it. As for NWN2, NWN1 is widely regarded as being a great RPG toolkit but not a great singleplayer game of itself. NWN2's campaign was great.
I also think Mass Effect is greatly overrated - light on the RPG elements, the combat was nothing special and didn't feel great, and the side quests were a joke. I wanted to love it but it just wasn't that great. If AP is merely a spy version of Mass Effect I'll be disappointed.
Matt knows what he's talking about. I didn't know he was PR though..sure he had a hand in development. If he says its better than that, and its Obsidian, I trust the guy. He's never let me down before.
I'm really confused where the Mass effect comparison came from, it is unfair to compare any game to ME. ME is one of them games that only comes along like once in every 5 years, the only comparison i would say is dont bring it out anywhere near the ME2 release window lol. I would say this game could be somewhere between Splinter cell and Hitman with some Rpg elements in it so maybe the comment from Micheal Foster about this game is a pretty fair comment, which sounds to me like a good blend of gameplay, very interested to see how this turns out but suspect it might fail, but we can all hope it will be at least fairly decent, but on par with ME... nether!
Mass Effect was barely an RPG too, hell, there hasn't been a decent RPG released in ages (perhaps excluding The Witcher).
There have been lots of shooters released with RPG elements but as far as I'm concerned, Mass Effect, Fallout 3 and by the looks of it, Alpha Protocol will be no more RPG then Deus Ex was (and none of them will be half as good anyway ).
Maybe I'm just a cynic in my old age, but why can't we go back to the days of top down RPG's with gorgeous backdrops, character animations and importantly, a story you actually don't already know off by heart before the game even starts (Ie An ancient evil is stirring blah blah blah, only you can save the world/universe because you're special blah blah blah).
I blame the consoletards who have never even heard of games like Planescape Torment for all the ills in the RPG genre currently. Hang your heads in shame!
If you think Fallout 3 was a strong RPG, clearly you haven't played Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2 or Fallout 1 + 2.
Sure, you could choose different perks and use different weapons. You could even choose to help helpless people or brutally murder them, even if those choices had little relevance on the game aside from a different slide show ending. In essence, exactly the same as Deus Ex or System Shock 2, both of which I wouldn't consider RPG's either (despite them both being fantastic games and 200 times better than Fallout 3).
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Fallout 3 (though it was by no means a classic), but I enjoyed it for what it was, a shooter with role playing elements, with rather a weak plot (most of which you could skip rather strangely).
If we were to compare it to say Planescape;
It's a game which doesn't need slow motion headshots, item crafting, horse armour DLC, "mature" gore splatterings, gratuitous sex (even the brothel you encounter in the game is entitled "The Brother for Intellectual Lusts!" or foul language. Hell, it even has it's own dialect and language smattered throughout the game! It doesn't need a fancy 3D engine, tons of voice acting or lightsabers to make it compelling! What is has in acres is story, terrific conversation, characters you actually care about and who actually have interesting back stories (especially Dakkon and Morte). It has a completely cliche free gameworld which is massive and has so many things to see/do. It's a game that doesn't patronise and doesn't aim for the lowest common denominator in fact, I may be so bold as to say that this is the most intelligent game I've ever had the pleasure of playing.
Fallout 3 on the other hand requires gimmicks to be enjoyable, which is fine, but it's by no means a definitive RPG experience is it
ME was even worse to be fair, it's plot was one of the most clichéd, uninspired works of drivel I've ever had the misfortune of playing through. How often are we going to do the whole generic plot where an ancient evil is stirring in the land and only YOU, the most specialist, greatest of heros in all the world can save all the fuzzy wuzzy bunnies from certain, painful destruction? But wait there's more, there's even the alien that wants to destroy life just for the hell of it! (ala Prey, Freespace, Homeworld Cat, Star Trek, Oblivion etc etc etc) Along with that, you'll fight along side grizzled solider number 267 & 498 who just wanna kill something sharpish! Woo hoo! Not only that but you'll do exactly the same quest over and over again with a slightly different explanation each time and with the same 2 level designs repeated! Yay for progress!
Anyone who describes ME as being "deep" is an idiot who would probably also describe Halo or COD4 as being the definitive shooters of our time.
I'm a RPG snob, and a completely unrepentant one at that. Bioware will continue down the seemingly neverending decline that's leading to the abomination that will be Dragon Age (mark my words). Bethseda will continue to amaze us with choices beyond compare that boil down to t**tting something/someone over the head or embracing them as our long lost brother. Obsidian still remain my one bastion of hope after Mask of the Betrayer (the best RPG in recent years), but are unlikely to ever release a game that is finished/playable. Along with that, Alpha Protocol doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence
I hope that cleared up your confusion as to what an RPG should be and how currently, nothing much seems to be fitting the bill!
Bulls**t. Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are *excellent* RPGs. They're a DIFFERENT type of RPG because you are limited somewhat when you have to create full VO for every decision and need to pre render/script scenes for every permutation of decisions and can't just drop in a different sprite like in Baldurs Gate or Planescape.
Jesus, there's room for both types in this world. I (and most reviewers and punters) found ME's plot to be very fresh and interesting and it's certainly not the aspect of the game people found fault with. Fallout's (and Oblivion's) plot was a little looser simply because it allowed you so much scope to be who you wanted to be. You did have to use a bit of artistic license and imagination to stay "in character" and fill in the blanks. Fallout was also as much about exploration as it was shooting or indeed role playing.
Chimpster, I respect the fact you don't like these games, and consider them "gimmicky" but you do come across like one of those people who doesn 't like films because "the book was much deeper". Personally I enjoy films AND books. Personally I enjoy action oriented RPGs AND isometric text heavy ones. Personally I think I'll enjoy Alpha Protocol and I cannot wait for Mass Effect 2.
Also, did I just read that a Sony guy openly professed to loving a MS 360/PC exclusive and not finding the multi-format one to be up to that high watermark?
Speaking of multiformat - I'm intrigued to see how Dragon Age turns out. That's supposedly Bioware consciously trying to blend an old skool Baldurs Gate/Planescape RPG with the engine and style of Mass Effect...
Mori, you strike me as being someone who likes a game because it's the next "big thing" and hype rather than appreciating it on it's own merits.
Let's draw some comparisons on the topics you've described - books for instance
Let's go to an extreme we can both agree on (I would hope). Is Harry Potter a better written fantasy book than The Lord of the Rings (or perhaps Terry Pratchett is a better comparison)? They're both read by the same audiences of their day, both incredibly popular and both not without their faults. Is Harry Potter uninspired, derivative nonsense, yes, undoubtably. Do people still enjoy it, absolutely. Is it better than The Lord of the Rings/Terry Pratchett? Hell no
Is ME uninspired derivative nonsense, yes, undoubtably. Do people still enjoy it, absolutely. Is it better than Planescape? Hell no
Did I enjoy ME? Yes, I did, but I see it for what it is, a shooter on the rails, with terrible story telling but entertaining combat. Is it a good RPG? No. Is it a good shooter, Yeah, it's alright.
If you can tell me what was "fresh and interesting" about ME's plot I'll be amazed because it was certainly neither of those things, not by a long way. Completely detached codex reports, characters that have no backstory whatsoever beyond maybe 2 lines of dialogue, and a plot device that's so common that it practically writes itself.
I agree, there are room for shooters with RPG elements in the world as well as true RPG games (and I would classify The Witcher and Mask of the Betrayer as good modern examples of those to show I'm not a complete old school snob).
If we were to use your definition of what an RPG is, then Half Life 2 would surely count too, there's exploration and you have to stay "in character" and fill in the blanks. Is it an RPG? No. Does just playing a role make a game an RPG in the true sense of the term? No.
I realise I sound pretentious and I apologise in advance if I sound condensing, clearly you're a chap who knows what he likes and can justify it clearly and concisely. I just love true blooded RPG's, and it's a real shame that they're going more and more down the route of diablo with a few bits of dialogue scattered here and there (a gross exaggeration perhaps but certainly the direction they seem to be taking).
Oh, and Dragon age will be terrible. Anyone who feels the need hype their product with more Gore, action, sex, bad language and "maturity" in order to sell it, clearly aren't quite on the right track I mean, have you seen some of the dialogue in the gameplay movies yet? Or anything gameplay wise that doesn't include battering the life out of vast armies of darkness?
I mean, look at some of these movies, the voice acting is terrible, the dialogue is terrible, all they want to get across is the combat, gore, and sex (probably because there isn't going to be anything else to the game at all - battling dark spawn, oh joy!) http://dragonage.bioware.com/characters/leliana
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
).
or foul language. Hell, it even has it's own dialect and language smattered throughout the game!
