Bethesda production director, Ashley Cheng, has wrote a short blog on why you lot are foaming at the mouth over the content and length of Halo: ODST. There's nothing like weighing in on someone else's beef...
"Microsoft and/or Bungie totally bungled the marketing on this," Cheng begins. "First saying it was a standalone expansion pack, then coming out and saying wait, no, we're charging full price because - surprise! - we put 'more' stuff in it and it's called Halo ODST now, vs it's original title, Halo Recon. Like Microsoft was ever going to sell this for less than full price. It is a new Halo title, it'll sell like hotcakes no matter what."
You may remember our ODST review went out of it's way to say (in the opening paragraph): "Halo 3: ODST is epic. Don't be fooled by people saying it's only an expansion. Yes, it has the shortest campaign of any Halo game, but it's marginal. Every second is pure, Halo-flavoured glory and every Halo fan should have ODST in their lives."
Cheng adds, "Because of the waffling, reviewers are now mentioning that Halo ODST may not be worth the price point, that it should've been cheaper, etc... Give me a break. First off, most games - especially first person shooters - are anywhere from 5-10 hours. Tops. What makes Halo different from others? You can't just ping Halo ODST for it. I bet if Microsoft hadn't screwed up the marketing messaging, there would less talk about pricing."
Have you played it yet? What's your take? We're still gutted there's no matchmaking for Firefight.
I've not played it yet, but the short campaign has put me off buying it, I must admit, which probably has got something to do with the terrible marketing.
I don't know what they (Bungie) are worrying about because millions will buy it in their droves anyway - and I am sure that most of them will be happy with it.
It's probably just a few who sat on the fence, like me, who have opted out.
And most of the furore comes from the rabid anti-Halo mob anyway.....
Amazon have got it on sale for £29, so at least they're clear in their pricing that what you're buying isn't necessarily a 'full-length' game (although anyone that remembers the sudden and profoundly infuriating end of Halo 2 can hardly say that Bungie haven't tried this sh*t before). That said, as a Halo fan I'm still buying it: even a few hours is totally worth the price in my book.
Besides, what the bloke from Bethesda thinks constitutes satisfactory game length is presumably somewhat longer than MS or Bungie might agree with, as both the fantastic Fallout 3 and the epic yawn-fest Oblivion can freely attest.
While I do agree with some of his points, I don't think it was as big of a marketing blunder as he was making out.
And I'd like to see the overall sales figures for the first month of ODST and the 360 version of Fallout 3. I think that would paint a pretty good marketing picture...
It was always going to carry a stigma no matter how MS marketed it. Personally, I started on Legendary straight away and have clocked up just over 4 hours and I've only completed the first two missions.
Worry about your own games Cheng and let Bungie/MS take care of their own franchise(s) you tosser!
Picking up ODST today and I'm SURE it will be brilliant...a game doesn't have to be 100 hours long in single player to justify the price tag, it's all about replay value and the on-line experience which can add months never mind hours of continued play time.
I like the tidbits of the background story that I've seen/heard, and I was comforted by CVG's review of ODST. However, I don't plan on buying it for the simple reason that once you've played FPS with a gaming keyboard and mouse, FPS games played on a gamepad (no matter how comfortable it sits in my hand for other games) is an exercise in frustration akin to what I can only imagine might be attempting to build a house of cards as a paraplegic in a wheelchair with multiple sclerosis. Thanks, but no thanks - there are plenty of other frustrations in day-to-day life. "Halo 3" and "Gears of War 2" may very well be the first and last FPS I bought/buy for my Xbox 360 (I consider "Dead Space" an exception because of it's third-person view and fantastic controller setup). Short of a remote "gun" (Natal maybe?) I just don't see FPS games for the Xbox 360 ever meeting the standard I've grown accustomed to on my gaming PC.
So in order to get a decent game out of it i have to have 3 other friends online, all who own a copy of ODST, all of who have to be playing the game as the same time as me and all of whom want to play Firefight at the same time as me.
Utter crap. GoW2 had matchmaking in horde, why the hell should the be any different.
I finished the campaign on the first day, i was hoping firefight would keep me interested until MW2 but because theres no matchmaking, im left with a £30 paperweight
I like the tidbits of the background story that I've seen/heard, and I was comforted by CVG's review of ODST. However, I don't plan on buying it for the simple reason that once you've played FPS with a gaming keyboard and mouse, FPS games played on a gamepad (no matter how comfortable it sits in my hand for other games) is an exercise in frustration akin to what I can only imagine might be attempting to build a house of cards as a paraplegic in a wheelchair with multiple sclerosis. Thanks, but no thanks - there are plenty of other frustrations in day-to-day life. "Halo 3" and "Gears of War 2" may very well be the first and last FPS I bought/buy for my Xbox 360 (I consider "Dead Space" an exception because of it's third-person view and fantastic controller setup). Short of a remote "gun" (Natal maybe?) I just don't see FPS games for the Xbox 360 ever meeting the standard I've grown accustomed to on my gaming PC.
I used to play nothing but PC games. I saw the mouse and keyboard combination as the epitome of FPS control.
But I then got an Xbox, and found it far easier to play games on. I played that more and more to the point now where I wouldn't want to play an FPS any other way. Even when I go back to the PC for the odd dabble in BF2142, I get on ok with the control, but I don't find it anywhere near as comfortable. Especially when you realise you're having to pick up the mouse, move it somewhere else and carry on the same move to do big sweeps.
While I do agree with some of his points, I don't think it was as big of a marketing blunder as he was making out.
And I'd like to see the overall sales figures for the first month of ODST and the 360 version of Fallout 3. I think that would paint a pretty good marketing picture...
Unfair comparison. Halo has become a well known brand thanks to it's first 3 games. ODST will sell regardless of it's quality or reviews simply off the back of the first 3 games. Fallout was a game series relatively unknown by console owners so would therefore be much more difficult to market.
You'd be better off comparing ODST sales to that of other well known FPS's such as Killzone 2 or even perhaps Halo 3. If first month's sales are down compared to their previous game, it would prove that Microsoft screwed up their marketing.
While I do agree with some of his points, I don't think it was as big of a marketing blunder as he was making out.
And I'd like to see the overall sales figures for the first month of ODST and the 360 version of Fallout 3. I think that would paint a pretty good marketing picture...
Unfair comparison. Halo has become a well known brand thanks to it's first 3 games. ODST will sell regardless of it's quality or reviews simply off the back of the first 3 games. Fallout was a game series relatively unknown by console owners so would therefore be much more difficult to market.
You'd be better off comparing ODST sales to that of other well known FPS's such as Killzone 2 or even perhaps Halo 3. If first month's sales are down compared to their previous game, it would prove that Microsoft screwed up their marketing.
You misunderstand. I said Fallout 3 because it was released by Bethesda. It was a flippant remark aimed at that bloke's arrogance.
Especially when you realise you're having to pick up the mouse, move it somewhere else and carry on the same move to do big sweeps.
Or you could just increase your mouse sensitivity...
I'm well aware for mouse sensitivity, thanks
But changing that up the the absolute maximum won't resolve the issue. If you turn to the left 90 degrees, you always have to pick up and move your mouse back to the comfortable position in order for you to be able to do the same move again. It's the nature of the beast. It's a minor complaint for most people, but going back to it from a controller I'm very aware of it. It's just one of the things that you have to make sure you do otherwise you can end up with your mouse rammed up against your keyboard during a firefight.
I hate this growing acceptance that '5-10 hours' for a single player game is acceptable.
No it is not.
10 hours is adequate, sure. Personally I like games to go on as long as possible. But then there is the younger generation that are used to measly 5-10 hour campaigns.
I like the tidbits of the background story that I've seen/heard, and I was comforted by CVG's review of ODST. However, I don't plan on buying it for the simple reason that once you've played FPS with a gaming keyboard and mouse, FPS games played on a gamepad (no matter how comfortable it sits in my hand for other games) is an exercise in frustration akin to what I can only imagine might be attempting to build a house of cards as a paraplegic in a wheelchair with multiple sclerosis. Thanks, but no thanks - there are plenty of other frustrations in day-to-day life. "Halo 3" and "Gears of War 2" may very well be the first and last FPS I bought/buy for my Xbox 360 (I consider "Dead Space" an exception because of it's third-person view and fantastic controller setup). Short of a remote "gun" (Natal maybe?) I just don't see FPS games for the Xbox 360 ever meeting the standard I've grown accustomed to on my gaming PC.
I used to play nothing but PC games. I saw the mouse and keyboard combination as the epitome of FPS control.
But I then got an Xbox, and found it far easier to play games on. I played that more and more to the point now where I wouldn't want to play an FPS any other way. Even when I go back to the PC for the odd dabble in BF2142, I get on ok with the control, but I don't find it anywhere near as comfortable. Especially when you realise you're having to pick up the mouse, move it somewhere else and carry on the same move to do big sweeps.
As another poster already pointed out, that depends entirely on your dpi count. I use a Razer DeathAdder with 1800 dpi which is considered "low" these days in light of the 4,000 dpi gaming mice you can pick up now. As for "picking up the mouse" I have no such issue since I have a large gaming plate/mousepad specifically designed for gaming and my K&M setup buries my wireless Xbox 360 controllers any day of the week where it pertains to quick and precise responses. There's no contest, hands down.
I will likely always prefer a FPS on my PC or be greatly inclined to pass on a given FPS if no PC version is in the works. I like my Xbox 360 but it will never reach above the knees of my PC; it simply can't since it was never designed to do so.
P.S. There are a good reasons - once individual skill and experience have been accounted for - why PC gamers tend to cream console gamers in mixed FPS online games.
P.S. There are a good reasons - once individual skill and experience have been accounted for - why PC gamers tend to cream console gamers in mixed FPS online games.
I'm sure I've stated this before, but the Shadowrun devs proved otherwise...
Especially when you realise you're having to pick up the mouse, move it somewhere else and carry on the same move to do big sweeps.
Or you could just increase your mouse sensitivity...
I'm well aware for mouse sensitivity, thanks
But changing that up the the absolute maximum won't resolve the issue. If you turn to the left 90 degrees, you always have to pick up and move your mouse back to the comfortable position in order for you to be able to do the same move again. It's the nature of the beast. It's a minor complaint for most people, but going back to it from a controller I'm very aware of it. It's just one of the things that you have to make sure you do otherwise you can end up with your mouse rammed up against your keyboard during a firefight.
Speaking for myself, with the sensitivity settings I have, the type of mouse and mouse pad surface I have, I can turn ca. 145 degrees with just the flick of my wrist in a single player and online FPS game. Nothing I've seen on my Xbox 360 yet compares to that.
P.S. There are a good reasons - once individual skill and experience have been accounted for - why PC gamers tend to cream console gamers in mixed FPS online games.
I'm sure I've stated this before, but the Shadowrun devs proved otherwise...
If you will look more closely at what I posted you will see the word "trend", as in not 100% absolute, but with a general preponderance for favouring the PC crowd under the circumstances.
You are arguing against established and proven tech...
I hate this growing acceptance that '5-10 hours' for a single player game is acceptable.
No it is not.
10 hours is adequate, sure. Personally I like games to go on as long as possible. But then there is the younger generation that are used to measly 5-10 hour campaigns.
Agreed.
Paying 35-45 quid for a 5 hour gaming experience is not my idea of good value for money. 10 hours is around the time I start to begin feeling satisfied where it pertains to FPS games. Sure, often I will play through the game slower than the reviewers because I like to take my time and re-try different approaches if I think I missed something first time around in the middle of the game.
You are arguing against established and proven tech...
I spend 10 years of my life fixed to a PC for my gaming needs and yet I still believe the controller to be the better all-round performer for FPS games.
The analogue controller was designed for FPS's...the m&k combination was designed for spreadsheets...
"Give me a break. First off, most games - especially first person shooters - are anywhere from 5-10 hours. Tops. What makes Halo different from others? You can't just ping Halo ODST for it."
Exactly and its completley unfair having to pay £40 for every single one. Just because thats true doesnt mean that ODST should of followed suit. If they couldnt of made the campagin at least 10 hours long then the price should of gone down. Or they could of just bundled odst in a single disc because i personally have no interest in paying for the same content twice. The multiplayer for me is stale so this is a no buy. Until the game is at least £25, or the Halo Reach beta is released im not touching it.
Interesting why a member of Bethesda feels the need to comment on the marketing of a Halo game...
Personally I don't think they have messed it up at all. It was originally announced as an expansion called Recon, then over the course of a year or so added to it, and added to it, and added to it... Changed the name and stated it had become more than a mere expansion. Looking at the content included, include the Reach beta access, it's hard to disagree, even if the campaign is short (let's face it, what FPS have you played recently that took over 10 hours to complete?).
further to that, I got my copy for £26, and the average price point seems to be £30, less than a full price game.
Bearing in mind all of the above, it's hard to fathom the validity or point of such an observation, from someone who really doesn't need to be making such assertions in the first place.
You are arguing against established and proven tech...
I spend 10 years of my life fixed to a PC for my gaming needs and yet I still believe the controller to be the better all-round performer for FPS games.
The analogue controller was designed for FPS's...the m&k combination was designed for spreadsheets...
You are certainly entitled to your personal preference, however the empirical evidence in the form of hardware present in the PC and console platforms is not subject to personal likes or dislikes when it comes to real-term performance. Advanced mouse and keyboard configurations put the console controllers to shame. Precision? Check. Speed? Check. Incidentally the PC mouse was designed as a means of accessing and operating various PC programs - not solely for spreadsheets.
Whichever way you look at it - irrespective of how fond you are of a given console - all of the consoles, the Wii, the Xbox 360, the PS3, are each of them a proverbial tech dinosaur compared to the hardware being churned out for PCs. That doesn't mean the consoles can't provide fun and engaging gaming sessions - I am of the opinion that they can, and do - but for anyone to argue that the consoles can keep up with the best PC gear out there is just flat out false and preposterous. It's not a matter of personal sentiments; it's fact. Apropos, ATI's HD5800 series launched yesterday in the US and today in Europe. That baby smokes existing single GPUs and even some of the dual GPUs out there currently on occassion. It'll be interesting to see what Nvidia's GT300 series brings to the table hopefully before too long.
Mouse and keyboard combo goes hand-in-hand with the FPS genre.
There is no better method to play a FPS than a mouse and keyboard.
In fact such is my disdain for using control pads for FPS games, I refuse to buy ANY FPS games on console. And that will not change.
That means I have missed out on Bioshock, even though I could pick up a 360 copy for £8 on Ebay. But I am simply waiting for a new PC rig (current one has been obsolete for 2 years!) to play that or any other FPS.
We share very similar sentiments on this occassion, Sweaty. I would like to play BioShock but I won't put that insidious DRM/limited activation crap on the PC version of "Bioshock" on my PC. I care too much for my PC to do that to it (and yes, I am aware that one can reclaim the activations if it's done before uninstalling, but it doesn't remove the malware anti-piracy files). So, no "Bioshock" for me ever...Unless it's on someone elses PC system that doesn't mind.
If you don’t like using a joypad than that is fine, but must you come along with a holier than though attitude preaching that it is the ‘only’ way to play?
Can I play with a mouse and keyboard lying down on my settee? No.
Can I do this with a joypad? Yes! That’s all that matters for me, and probably millions of others who own a console and buy these games in their droves.
Also in the case of ODST you’re not just paying £30 for the campaign are you? There is firefight and the multiplayer, though this may not be everyone’s cup of tea you know what you’re buying and as such you can’t ignore the countless hours that this can provide.
4-5 for a game isn't acceptable, I agree. But if you play ODST properly (on heroic or legendary) there is no way you'll manage to finish it in that time. These people must be playing the game on easy and just running from location to location gunning stuff down along the way. That's not Halo- that's sight seeing.
I've started playing on heroic and have so far completed 3 missions and I've been playing for about 4 hours so far. Haven't even touched co-op or fire fight. For £30, it ain't that bad at all. But as others have said, where's the matchmaking Bungie??
Also the music is absolutely fantastic
(I've always preffered the comfort of the control pad too- but maybe it's because I'm crap with a mouse!)
If you don’t like using a joypad than that is fine, but must you come along with a holier than though attitude preaching that it is the ‘only’ way to play?
Can I play with a mouse and keyboard lying down on my settee? No.
Can I do this with a joypad? Yes! That’s all that matters for me, and probably millions of others who own a console and buy these games in their droves.
Also in the case of ODST you’re not just paying £30 for the campaign are you? There is firefight and the multiplayer, though this may not be everyone’s cup of tea you know what you’re buying and as such you can’t ignore the countless hours that this can provide.
If you don’t like using a joypad than that is fine, but must you come along with a holier than though attitude preaching that it is the ‘only’ way to play?
Can I play with a mouse and keyboard lying down on my settee? No.
Can I do this with a joypad? Yes! That’s all that matters for me, and probably millions of others who own a console and buy these games in their droves.
Also in the case of ODST you’re not just paying £30 for the campaign are you? There is firefight and the multiplayer, though this may not be everyone’s cup of tea you know what you’re buying and as such you can’t ignore the countless hours that this can provide.
Not sure whom specifically you are addressing, Conkers, but I'll take the bait.
1) It's not a "holier-than-thou" tone; if the facts bother you that's your problem. Not mine. Did I say it was "the only way to play"? Nope. Try again.
2) Yes, actually I can play with a M&K setup...and it doesn't even have to be with a wireless keyboard and mouse (although those would probably make it easier)! How do I know? Because I've tried it at one point in my life where I was bedridden for a while. It's not half-bad although accuracy does increase once you sit up properly, just as is the case with the gamepads.
3)I suspect the majority of console gamers bought their consoles primarily for one of the following reasons: a)the brand name, b) ease of use in regards to "plug n' play", c) various games released on the console, d) lack of confidence and/or knowledge regarding the often overwhelming amounts of hardware configurations and terms in the PC hardware world. The gamepad may be a "bonus" but I doubt it is the driving force behind console sales.
4) 30.00 quid for this game? Eh. It might be okay, but it's not just the price that's holding me back (I'd rather buy a completely different IP for 30 quid if push came to shove); as has already been established it's about the controls for what is very much a FPS game.
5) As for multiplayer, sure, it can add many hours of replayability to a game if enough other people *that you actually care to play with* join in and if the map, server, etc. support is there. Personally I don't care all that much for multiplayer - it's fun now and then but I would rather have a superb (and long,) single player campaign than an online ape fest any day of the week. If a game has to primarily rely on the multiplayer feature to sell it - which I don't think would be an entirely fair summation of ODST - then that indicates a weakness in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
P.S. Where I *do* think a gamepad comes in to its own are beat-'em up games, sports games, and games such as "Prince of Persia" and "Batman: Arkham Asylum" (although I haven't tried that one on the PC nor the Xbox 360 yet).
I'd just thought I'd say how awesome it is to see people having decent debates and conversations instead of some of the usual crap that gets spouted on this site
Just to put another opinion out there, I'm a fan of both setups. One isn't necessarily better than the other.
Guys an idiot pure and simple. Shame he didn't do his research or actually play it first because from his dumbass comments its obvious he has done neither.
First off it is not full price anywhere with most places charging 35 quid or less(I got my copy for £29.99), and 5-10 hours is about the norm for a Fps these days as he stated himself, so not sure what the problem is. Plus with the extra disc with all the Halo 3 maps and dlc included its somewhat of a bargain even if it were full price, which as mentioned before it isn't.
I do agree the name change was a bit stupid. I also don't think the actual campaign is as good as the other games and would rather they skipped the walking around the streets hub level altogether in favour of some longer campaign missions and a more linear story, but its still a good game with great atmopshere and is definitly worth the 30 quid I paid for it.
It probably would of been even cheaper (like around £15-20 maybe) if they hadn't included the whole multiplayer on a seperate disc. Not that I'm personally complaining but I already know some people who aren't happy being 'forced' to have pretty much the same product all over again (minus the 3 new maps -maybe they could of just been installed onto the hard drive off the campaign disc?).
i was surprised by the separate disc. I thought it was going to be a card with download codes on it.
Then again i guess they went for the disc format so that it wasn't necessary to have Halo 3 and also meant that gamers with Arcade SKUS could easily play all the maps too.
Still, New or not Halo 3s multiplayer is one of the best ever. and for £30 with an extra mode and a bloody fantastic campain its a fine FPS in its own right.
I wasn’t specifically talking to you KFD, no need to become so defensive! Sweaty boy stated ‘there is no better method’ and both of you have gone on how much better it is to use a mouse and a keyboard. If that suits you then fine, though you will never be able to do it on ODST so why bother going on about it here? If you never had any intention of buying the game due to it not having your preferred control interface why would the price bother you?
I also do disagree with the multiplayer point, just look at Battlefield 1943, that relies solely on a multiplayer aspect, and it’s bloody brilliant!
I wasn’t specifically talking to you KFD, no need to become so defensive! Sweaty boy stated ‘there is no better method’ and both of you have gone on how much better it is to use a mouse and a keyboard. If that suits you then fine, though you will never be able to do it on ODST so why bother going on about it here? If you never had any intention of buying the game due to it not having your preferred control interface why would the price bother you?
I also do disagree with the multiplayer point, just look at Battlefield 1943, that relies solely on a multiplayer aspect, and it’s bloody brilliant!
Fair do. Regarding the price point for ODST, it doesn't particularly bother me yet it does manage to place itself right on the border where it is no longer in the impulse buy zone for me. That in turn means it ends up in the batch where other titles - often premium AAA - are weighed and measured. ODST may be a fine game, I haven't played it so I can't say from personal experience, however if it is very similar to "Halo 3" which was fun enough for one play through, then my personal choice would probably be to experiment with a wholly different IP.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited, Beauford Court, 30 Monmouth Street, Bath, UK BA1 2BW England and Wales company registration number 2008885
