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Finally they have some ammunition :lol: I seriously doubt there'll be much difference between the 360 and PS3 version when they're released. If they're demo-ing GTA IV on the 360 then I'll be very pleased with what they'll be releasing, because it looks awesome. So where do Xbox owners stand in the long run?
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http://www.channel4.com/music/myband/paulhudd OOOOOOOOO thats kinda annoying now -- i personally have an xbox core as when i bought it thats all i could afford at the time then eventually i bought a hard drive on ebay for liek £35new
Heres my point of view sod the core gamers make the game for premium owners
Anyway why do you need the hard drive ?
Could sonys console be showing somthing with their increased disc size and hard drives on all consoles Can anyone tell me what SKU means? I see it popping up in more and more articles, but I have no idea what it means. i hate it when game developers have to cater to the lowest common denominator; means that the people who have the superior technology will have the watered-down version. sucked when it happened with the original XBox (though i didn't necessarily buy that console for multi-platform releases), and it's sucking now that its happening with the PS3 Stock Keeping Unit.
Wikipedia is your friend! This is why you don't ever buy the core systems. Stock Keeping Unit.
It's basically what prentetious c*nts use to sound 'in the know'... Like calling the original Playstation PSX. Isn't it funny how this article appeared in a Playstation magazine? also doesn't oblivion require a hard drive on xbox 360? Hilarious.
To be honest though - it is pointing out MS's short sightedness and backwards approach to 360 - why revert to non HDD when Xbox had a HDD?
C. It stands for Stock Keeping Unit and basically it is a way of stores identifying each individual item easily (for stocktaking for example).
For instance an Xbox 360 core unit will have it's own SKU, and an Xbox 360 Premium will have another. Every item sold in a store will have it's own individual SKU, to allow companies to track each item easily by it's SKU ID.
Boring, but there you go. :) Read this a few days ago... get your act together CVG! :P
I can totally understand how the lack of hard drive in the 360 Core system would be a limitation. I always hated the fact that MS left it out. After the hard drive being one of the most distinguishing and beneficial features of the original Xbox, it was a total step backwards and an idiotic move.
I also, and I hate to say this, understand how the lack of Blu-Ray is a limitation.
I've always thought of Sony's "Blu-Ray is liek teh bestz format evaar!" as absolute BS, and it still is to a degree. I mean for movies which is the formats primary function... just look at the reviews and comparisons online, and you will see that HD DVD always wins from a picture quality standpoint.
I now however can see the truth in their statement that provides a benefit for games. Previously I said better compression will serve the purpose, and if it stil wont fit put it across multiple discs, but with GTA you can't. Cross a bridge, swap the disc... "Oh hang on its back that way", repeat.
Not good news. I'm sure the guys at Rockstar will make it work this time around, I mean Saints Row/Crackdown run fine on 360... but what about GTA V or other upcoming sandbox games where the developers really want to make something absolutely huge?
Another new SKU :) in the form of Xbox 360 Ultimo-Elite-Sorry-We-Didn't-Do-This-Originally with a next gen optical format built in? just release it as a multi disk dvd which needs to be installed on the hard-drive.
people would buy hard-drives just to play it, and microsoft could do some kind of discount deal on buying GTA4 and purchasing a hard-drive as well.
Sorted... In terms of consoles it really mean 'bundle' with Xbox having 3 (core, premium, elite) and PS3 having 2 (though only one in Europe).
Hard drives make accessing data much faster than getting it from a DVD or Blu-Ray. Because a 360 may not have a HDD, developers HAVE to get it from the disk, slowing the process down and limiting what can be done. I always thought MS made a mistake by removing the HDD from it's standard features. Foolish.
Still, like they say, PS3 has it's own limitations. They're just not listed because it's a PSM article. :P I was wondering if and when Rockstar would comment on this matter...
I think for them, the problem with 360 is the uncertainty of a HDD and the lack of storage with the DVD format.
The PS3 version is most likley more difficult to develop for which is why they are using the 360 version to show off to the press.
The good news though is that Oblivion delt with all the issues GTA is facing so i can't really see a problem. I expect each version to be near identical and to be a joy to play I hope.
Looking forward to a great few months when GTA4 and Halo 3 emerge. Suprise. They tell a PS3 magazine that the PS3 has advantages. Seriously... Well, we'll see, won't we... Developers *have* to get it from the disk only if a HDD is absent. Or by people with actual jobs in the retail industry... I think this is Rockstar's way of getting a little extra praise. They'll say oh, we've got this amount of problems to overcome and it's a big challenge. Then, when the game is released and all of the problems have been dealt with, we'll all say how amazing they are and how much we love them, blah blah. so does that mean the PS3 version of GTA4 will also be limited just because of the 360? just thinking about blu-ray having more space than a dvd no, a hard drive is only required on the ps3. So why not just make it a 360 HDD only game?
It's a good excuse to go out and buy a HDD, either one of the new 120gb models or if that costs too much then a 20gb one, they should be coming down in price soon, and there's going to be plenty of 2nd hand ones on Ebay when people start to upgrade to the 120gb model. Interesting article, and although I'm sure the extent to which the game is being held back is negligable, its early days in terms of this gens games so murmering like this now could mean bigger problems further down the line. Hope not, but its a possability. :? Yer, and the PS3 price limits everyone apart from millionaires!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist that one :D because, for whatever reason, some people simply don't have a HDD. and as a developer, Rockstar must dummy their game down to cater to EVERYone. sucks true, but it is what it is. Microsoft should've considered this before making the Core 360.
personally, i'm more concerned about what the lack of a high-storage medium like Blu-ray or HD-DVD may mean. if Rockstar can offer more on a Blu-ray, but wont because they have to cater to DVD's, then that'll be pretty sad. They're clever chaps over at Rockstar, im sure they'll find a way to overcome any problems without compromising the game play. I think at the end of the day if they say to MS that the 360 version of the game is going to be compromised if they dont stipulate that a HDD is a must, MS will probably find a work around, like as someone already said about offering a discounted HDD if bought with GTA or something. There's no way they'd want their version to be inferior to the PS3 version, PSX
I thought PSX was a tarty name for the original PS as well, for a while.
As for GTA probs... there'd be nothing stopping them from making downloadable content, surely? Just means Core owners won't see it, eh?
Premium + and PS3 owners will be happy. It's there fault for being poor.
And smelly. PSX was the original name for the Playstation when it was intended to be an add-on for the SNES.
I thought he Xbox360 used HD-DVD which holds about 15Gb of information surely that's plenty. the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 is for movies only, not videogames. and Microsoft has already said that they will never use the HD-DVD add-on for games. to use HD-DVD for games now would be far worse than having a 360 SKU w/o an HDD. if they ever did, then in essence the 360 will cost more than the PS3, which is what they're trying to avoid. »PSX
That came out after people started refering to Playstation as PSX, mainly thanks to wannabe, elitist mags, and it's not what most people mean when they say PSX... It was originally the codename - Playstation X - before it was released I think. i will never understand why Microsoft wanted to bring out the Core 360 with no HDD! or for that matter use DVD as the game format when they should has used HD-DVD to let devs really create huge worlds! Well done Microsoft *clap clap clap* yea, wikipedia says PlayStation eXperimental.
hence PSX, i remember reading a few mags, playstation zone or something, they ALWAYS referred to it as the psx,
plus i think gamesmaster magazine referred to it as PSX in the release dates because they just had the 3 letter codes, STN, N64, SNS, MGD, ARC, GMB, SMS, NES, etc...
anyone i never had any bloody idea why until i read about the planned sony cd SNES add on about 5 years later and what it evolved into.. More space to play with doesn't mean bigger game worlds. It just means they can be lazy with the code and not compress stuff. That's what i've been saying for along time,start instead with the superior pc system,then work on converting the title to the lower, ring fenced ,console technology .
Rockstar,i take it, that everything you use ,which requires a personnel computer ,be it e-mail,music,video,photo,encryption,or any other kind of data you work with,is always in a raw , uncompressed state ?
Do something that requires some actual leg/finger work,rockstar,if the supposedly ground braking ,hardware pushing, Crysis,can cope with dvd,how can a generic title like GTA not ?
Look at it like this,a bare female bottom,bending over looks fantastic,the same bottom,squeezed into a pair of tight trousers,and bending over ,still looks fantastic. You could also say a fat arse looks bad... but a fat arse squeezed into hotpants with bits hanging over the top and out the bottom looks even worse :D :lol: »»PSX
Impossible. Because if that were true.. I'd be wrong.
*sits and thinks about it for a while*
Nope. I am correct, so the rest of the world had better bloody well get used to it... I have to say that is the first time an analogy for videogame code has turned me on :wink:
Seriously though, this is just a load of talk at the end of the day Rockstar are going to come out with the same game for xbox 360 and the PS3 whether they just use more efficient commpression or whether they have to make compromises it is going to be the same game on both platforms and no one but them is going to know if it could have been bigger or better. Frankly I don't know why anyone would doubt the quality of this title it's clearly going to be awesome, so everyone chill out! But at the end of the day,rockstar ,bluray is turning out to be largely unimportant,you,like most developers,will implement the same use of the hard disk, to cache a huge amount of the data that's on disc ,proving that an optical disc,with large storage,is not much use over a single or multiple dvd 9,but a hard disk as standard is.
Why not go the whole hog,and adopt the same methods of the pc,install the game directly to the hard disk,then we won't have a need to handle the physical ,pressed disc again,then we'll have some silence ,no dvd drive access noise ,ruining our enjoyment,ever again.
Bluray for the win,more like,hard disk for the win ? But at the end of the day,rockstar ,bluray is turning out to be largely unimportant,you,like most developers,will implement the same use of the hard disk, to cache a huge amount of the data that's on disc ,proving that an optical disc,with large storage,is not much use over a single or multiple dvd 9,but a hard disk as standard is.
Why not go the whole hog,and adopt the same methods of the pc,install the game directly to the hard disk,then we won't have a need to handle the physical ,pressed disc again,then we'll have some silence ,no dvd drive access noise ,ruining our enjoyment,ever again.
Bluray for the win,more like,hard disk for the win ? This is my biggest gripe with the 360, Microsoft you damn fools! You should've put a HDD in every console! »
Its not as foolish as you think.... putting a HD-DVD drive in it would have raised the cost substantially and would have been priced around the same cost as a PS3.
I don't think that size even on a DVD9 should be that big an issue, after all 9gb is a lot of data for any game, especially when compression routines mean that you can probably get between 12-15gb of data from one DVD9 disc. Rockstar are basicly blaming Xbox 360 for the negative response GTA IV has recieved. I'm sorry but that is bollocks. Rockstar have just run out of ideas and its got nothing to do with the percieved lack of Xbox 360 power and the lack of space on a DVD. The Sony fanboys are conspicuous by their absence. After all the kicks in the groin they've had over the last year I'd be crowing like a smug rooster about this.
Come on sony kids! Us poor old Wii owners need a break from the drubbing we get from you 360 and PS3 owners. Time for you to reignite your flame wars against each other! I didn't hear anyone complain when the consoles changed from CD to DVD.
All the new systems are designed for HD-TV and any cut scenes in the game should be up to the same quality.
When you have used up most of the space on a dual layer
DVD for the graphics this means the audio will have to suffer, either in quantity, quality or both.
Personally I think it was a natural progression to move onto blu ray. Any extra space could be used for higher quality audio. I didn't buy a £425 games console to have the sound coming from the shitty speakers on my TV, oh no. To have the full experience you must have 7.1 surround sound and enough base to remove the plaster from the ceiling.
If the only difference between the two versions is an extra 200 songs / radio tracks, then I know what version I'll be getting..... They must have all been promoted... Think they're on the first rung of Nintendo fanboyism ladder, working their way up into the elite ranks of the PC fanboy. :D Student Loans for the win :D....i mean *cough* there used for books and stuff *cough* If only they had waited intil now, released the Xbox 360 for £425 and had as many good games out as the PS3.
One more thing. If it won't fit on 1 DVD then you could, i don't know, put it on 2 DVD's. It will still be quicker to download the data from 2 DVD's than the same amount of data from the slow Blu-ray drive. If your lowest target doesn't include a hdd then I guess you have to compromise, but it would be very interesting to know what the challenges they had with the Blu-Ray drive though... Imo this article is BS. R* in their latest interview stated that both the 360's DVD drive and PS3's Blu-Ray created challenges and that neither was perfect. And what does the core have to do with anything? They will optimise the game for the core and if the game recognises you have a HDD on your system the game will be optimised for that aswell. Same thing Oblivion does. You'll just have longer load times with the Core unit. Microsoft should ditch the Core ASAP in my opinion, they were so dumb to even think of releasing it in the first place Look... Of course it might end up being a very similar version. But that's clearly not something to brag about as 360 supporter.
They have to make choices that makes it fit on a 360, so they won't have to make too different versions of the game. That is hard to manage too for them.
If the games will be much alike, it is due to 360 forcing Rockstar to nerf the game, and not that a PS3 isn't capable of more.
Even if the had the same processing power and all, it would allow for a lot more options when you have a Blue Ray disk instead of normal DVD, and a harddrive instead of none. That only makes sense...
Sad for the PS3 fans, if this means there isnt taken fully advantage of their version. I can't afford any versions anyways, so I dont have to care. Though I would love the game :) Easy answer, just make it for the premium 360s, if you aint got one, tough! Its like having a low spec pc and moaning you can't play high spec games on it. Stop making lame excuses Rockstar! Just release the game on the PC, there are no limits on that platform. :D What's a 'sandbox' title? Jeez, that is the whole point - Rockstar won't make it just for Premium owners because then they lose a chunk of their widest possible target audience.
Which=lots of cash. The fairest point of them all Utter crap
If Rockstar concentrated on gameplay instead of fancy videos well have a game, if i wanted to watch a Blu-ray movies ill buy Resevior dogs.
Typical rubbish Sony fanboys lap up, just take a look at every online sony game and every new console they are all seriously struggling and over hyped. GOOD! It's not a game I care about and it is payback for all the crappy PS2 ports the original Xbox got. Sony fanboys get used to it because with no exclusives you'll be getting alot of these. HA HA! If you buy a 360 without a HDD then you have to accept that it will not play one or two games each year that require it. Either that or go buy one. you dont have to be a genius to work out that the xbox has limited gta iv. their gonna have to make it for fricken dvds It's a game that creates an enviroment, like a city or a battlefield, and allows the player to explore and interact with it, with complete freedom, ie go where you want, do what you want. sorry but the only negative response was to the short trailer. Nobody has seen the full game so how do you know they have run out of ideas? DVD is last gen! How many DVDs is blue dragon on? 3? 4? 20??? if Microsoft had not rushed the 360 out to be first to beat Sony and Nintendo then maybe the 360 would have had a HD-DVD drive built in and devs could create huge worlds on the PS3 and 360. IMO this is why i think the PS3 will have the better games out of the two in a year or two because of Blu-ray. Great job Microsoft well done *clap clap clap* Why don’t they all just add HD/BluRay DVD and god knows what amount of gig on every console so nobody can afford a games machine. :roll: Good for you. Now list the amount of games that actually will require more than 9gb uncompressed... and see if the extra cost of a PS3 is actually worth it. Especially as Microsoft now have the cheaper to build console, that will be profitable to sell this year... and then look at the mess Sony has got itself into.
Sorry but games that will require the space requirements of a BluRay/HD-DVD are going to be few and far between. Is GTA 4 still having episodic content?
If yes ofcourse it is an limitation that not al xbox 360 come with a hard drive. Otherwise I should agree that a hd drive might have been better but that still wouldn't garenty the quality of any game it would only garuantee higher development cost.
Also, at the rate this is going it will be a good excuse for cross platform games to blame "bad quality"games on microsoft xb 360. the hdd isnt that bigger deal as rockstar made a little game called san andreas, this had no loading times and was on the ps2!
also they could just do what oblivion does and make the game use the hdd if it's present, and use it to load up the scenery at a further distance away from when there is no hdd. The HDD is a part of what the Xbox is all about, no serious Xbox player should be caught without it.
I say make it "HDD required" from the start if you really need it. If the game turns out AAA it'll be a good reason do buy one. I've hardly seen a comment from one Sony fanboy in here. It's all 360 fanboys justifying why their console has limiting factors in making GTA4!?
It sounds to me that Rockstar need to make the same game run completely different on the both machines to get the best out of them. Having to cater for no hard drive and less storage space is obviously going to be a limiting factor!
If the PS3 have more disc storage and a guarenteed hard drive, take full advantage of it is what I say!
I have no doubt that this will not be the last time developers are finding certain elements of the 360 limiting. i think that they should go ahead & cater to the people with hard drives :twisted: on 360, AS 1:it will encourage others to upgrade from mem cards."2: MSoft already done this b4 when they allowed companies to make live arcade games bigger than the 50 meg.as a 360 owner im looking forwards to GTA4 and dont want to be getting less than PS3 owners.You can get a preowned HDrive for less than a new game so wots the problem IMO. There is an easier solution;
GTA is released on 360 with a 1/2/4 Gb USB flash drive for storage and streaming. These can be bought at trade for next to nothing.
If you ain't got a HDD, plug the USB drive in. Sorted. They said that about CD at one point... »»
An HDD is a Hard Disk Drive... that TLA has been used for years...
Always having an HDD in every box would've raised the cost of the xbox by about £10... a silly omission in my view...
Of course it was probably done so that they can sell the premium version for £60 more and the external HDD for £40 extra... thus make ludicrous amounts of money on cheap peripherals.
For 50 quid you can get a 320 GB HDD (Note also you can get a 1TB drive for 220 quid now - how cool is that?)
C. It will be the same as the others, same gameplay and doing the same things. If they set it in the near future, it could of been fun. I also found San Andreas really dissapoiting compared to Vice. Unless they are doing something new with it then id rather spend my time and money playing new origenal games like Mass Effect etc... If they made GTA4 that you need a HDD it would not be the first game on the system with that requirement you need a HDD to play Final fantasy 11 & the more games that require the HDD the more cash MS will make especially if they are big budget highly anticipated games like GTA.
Personally I dont care if a game comes on 1 disc or 4 as long as the games are great I can put up with a little disc swapping I mean multiple discs didnt stop FF 7, Panzer dragoon saga, Metal gear solid, Shenmue etc from being considered classic games did it. Massive worlds eh? Oblivion not big enough for ya? The 360 isn't a rushed console- as far as I can see the utter bodge job that is the PS3 is a rushed console (and that's with the 6 month delay). So you can stop spouting that tyred old statement all the time.
And as for disc swapping in blue dragon... are you that lazy to get off your arse once every 10 hours or so?
Personally if the HD drive or Blu-ray drive is gonna add another £100 to a console, I'm happy without it, it hasn't ruined my gaming so far, and with the tsunami of great games coming out in the next 18 months, I don't think it's gonna bother me too much. Ok..... now list the games you think will need over 9gb of disc space. The fact is that the requirement for such storage space is a minority. The majority of games this generation will only need 1 DVD.
Nintendo did alright last generation with 1.5gb discs. So I can see there being a major problem for MS and the 360. way to go microsoft u bash ps3 and ur week system cant even run games ur trying to steal thats funny what do all ur fanboys have to say about thier shiny piece of crap now way to mess it up for ppl who have a good system 360 is weak and if it stays working long enough for halo 3 i hope it has the power to work on it can u see a trend thanks to ur week system we all get a a crappy game 360 fanboys make me want to puke way to f it up for ppl with good systems well smart guy thier are no 20 gig any more way to know ur stuff And people wondered why the Sony fanboys were up in arms about the multiplatform approach of DMC4
It means the company needs to work within the boundaries of 2 consoles (3 if you include PC) which means twice the number of problems.
What this means is the Rockstar have had to incorparate the weak spots of the 360 AND the weak spots of PS3.
If it was an exclusive it wouldn't have this problem (Couldn't care which console it went to, i have both so i'm happy either way :P) Thankyou to dandiggler for his impressive display of good English, great bumping tecnique and his Anti grammer nazi-ism.
I can understand Rockstar may have some problems, but a dvd is still incredibly large for a game. I think of it this way:
You have 2 pictures, one is a .bmp and the other is a .jpg . Using the right software they are both the same quality but the .jpg is much smaller.
Rockstar obviously want to make this game huge but if they aren't prepared to write the game well (making a smaller size on disk) then I'm not willing to buy the game. C&C3 is coming to 360, and thats a PC port. Does THAT need a HDD? No.
The guy at Rockstar who said this is probably a P$3 fanboy. Where do these idiots keep spawning from? And why can't any of them spell?
Gotta say, that post makes English Crusader look like... f*ck'in shaft! thats why these games should be developed for the PC first, and then ported (and dumbed down, if necessary)to the consoles(xbox,ps3,etc.). Why do all you fanboys feel the need to prove that one console is better than the other - i bet most of you that say one console is better than the other hasnt even played both - its just stupid its not like its important or anything what do you get out of "the XBOX 360 is better because it has a million and nine games on it" "But the PS3 is Better because the Blu-Ray has seven hundred million bajillion GB on it" or whatever - think about it - why does it matter that much to you? is there any real need to get all angry and everything - THEYRE FRIGGIN GAMES CONSOLES :x - Just play the one you wonna play, have your opinions - because youre not going to change how anyone feels about their babys, erm i mean consoles. Oblivion Developer: "Blu-ray Is Slower"
Speaking with EGM, a paper magazine, Bethesda Software's Todd Howard commented on the upcoming PS3 version of Oblivion:
"Drive speed matters more to me , and Blu-ray is slower."
The developer is apparently duplicating critical data on the Blu-ray disc in order to fill up all the unused space, which improves load times for the game. Tests have shown that load times on the PS3 could be slightly slower than those on the Xbox 360, which has lead the developer to using data duplication techniques to improve the PS3's performance.
As soon as Oblivion launches, we'll report back with exact load time statistics for comparison with the Xbox 360 version. This will give us the first real comparison between the Xbox 360 and PS3 load times. Of course, it could be argued that the PS3 version contains more data, and thus will load slower regardless. what is everbody worrying about it will come out for 360 because remember they started making this game before the ps3 was even realesed | 
