By up to $6 billion reckons a new study A US study conducted on behalf of the Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) has found that new point of sale disc activation technology could increase annual sales by $6 billion.... read more
If it is a system that is dealt with before you leave the shop, then I can't see a problem with it. _________________ PSN ID: MarkyUK 360 ID: MarkyUK35
The wheels on the bus go round and round - round and round - round and round.
thghis is more to do with actual pysical theft rather than piracy.
Stuff thats leaked would not have had this implemented, and anything that has later been ripped would of already been activated. You'd just be making a copy of an already activated product.
It won't make even a tiny dent in piracy they'd be an army of guys trying to crack this and it wouldn't take them very long at all i bet. _________________ The only thing we know is that we know nothing.
What happens when(and not if) staff screw up and you end up going home with a useless(still locked) copy? And since most loss of stock(shoplifting/shrinkage)is caused by staff, what's to stop them abusing the system? _________________ "D'oh!! Those were the droids we were looking for"
XBL:TED1138
STEAM:ted1138
Normally I would be all over DRM like a fly on sh!t, however if this system is *solely* limited to in-store retail sales then I can accept it. Indeed, I might even encourage it. I've never been against the legal IP holders making a profit off their work, but rather that their bungling attempts have harmed the legitimate customers which is unforgivable and even more so in light of the fact that their methods were useless at stopping piracy.
I do have an "umbrella" question regarding this system: How would it be implemented on discs that are sold via online distributors such as Amazon, etc.? Would those discs already be activated when shipped? If so who would do the activating - Amazon or the manufacturer? Wouldn't that leave the copies that are sold online and then delivered via post of particular interest to theft while in storage? What sort of safety system could be implemented to ensure you don't get sent an inactive copy from half way around the world? If you do how do you get it activated without paying for additionatl shipping costs (nevermind the time delay)? _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
Last edited by The_KFD_Case on 23 Jun 09 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
What happens when(and not if) staff screw up and you end up going home with a useless(still locked) copy? And since most loss of stock(shoplifting/shrinkage)is caused by staff, what's to stop them abusing the system?
I think you and I are setting our sights on similar concerns, Ted. Whether it be a small retail outlet or a massive storage warehouse, it would seem the greatest immediate liability are the actual staff members...And yet, if you can't trust your staff to carry out certain duties and tasks you might as well close up shop. _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
A read-only format that you only get after you've handed over the cash (because in-store cases are empty) can only be activated by creating an online account and signing into it to let them know your copy is activated. Sound familiar?
It's not like the stores can burn an extra line of code onto the disc or anything. _________________ Xfire | Xbox Live | PSN: Dajmin
The Ranting Scotsman | My Band:www.albanydown.com
A good question, Paul. Perhaps it utilises software like those temporary DVDs that made a brief appearance on the radar several years back whereby you could view/access the material on a DVD disc for 24-48 hours after which a pre-programmed self-destruct sequence is automatically activated and the disc data is erased. I'm presuming this would happen once the disc was placed in a drive after the expiration data as I find it difficult to see how the stored data would "know" when to self-destruct as the DVD has no internal tech to keep track of such matters to my knowledge. _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
a tiny fraction i'd bet. plus its only a physical copy lost, not a potential sale (piracy).
even then, people who download games wouldn't necessarily buy them or even be interested in them if they weren't free.
I agree with what you wrote highlighted in bold. As some developers have stated the future of gaming may well rest with in-game ads. If you completely want to stamp out piracy you have to embrace it and make it legal and the norm. Gaming profits would primarily have to be made the way radio and tv stations make them: through sponsors and advertisement time/space.
That possibility would open up a whole new sub-market for market groups as developers, publishers, sponsors, ad agencies, etc. would have to figure out which games are picked-up by various age/gender/consumer, etc. groups. _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
This is a pretty good system for stopping pre-release leaks from staff members and lorries being nicked but surely the technology required to unlock the discs would easily be replicated so what difference would it make? Always ways round these things.
To be honest it does sound good but the main thing I am surprised about is that they are looking at stolen goods and not piracy. Also it would be harder to do this to dvds and Blu Rays surely because the players do not currently have the software or hardware in them to recognise a activated or not activated disc. More info please CVG! _________________ AJ
Blog - http://ajb123644.blogspot.com
Reviewing Site - http://theaaapartnership.wordpress.com
Together we are strong and United we will stand. As PC Gamers come together United we shall be Victorious!
I actually wouldn't mind in-game advertising as long as it suited the game, or the adverts were done in a style to suit.
For instance, Fallout 3. Nuka-Cola might as well be Coke, so what difference would it make if it was? Each of the adverts would easily replace with a real-world counterpart. As long as it wasn't "targeted" spyware advertising, of course.
Real-world racing games already have adverts, no difference there. The only potential problem would be fictional worlds. The company would need to design advertising material that fit or it would remove the immersion. Not so much a problem with futuristic stuff (like Mass Effect or Warhammer), but could cause an issue with fantasy-themed games.
I want to hear more about this system, only because so far it doesn't sound like anything new. _________________ Xfire | Xbox Live | PSN: Dajmin
The Ranting Scotsman | My Band:www.albanydown.com
I actually wouldn't mind in-game advertising as long as it suited the game, or the adverts were done in a style to suit.
For instance, Fallout 3. Nuka-Cola might as well be Coke, so what difference would it make if it was? Each of the adverts would easily replace with a real-world counterpart. As long as it wasn't "targeted" spyware advertising, of course.
Real-world racing games already have adverts, no difference there. The only potential problem would be fictional worlds. The company would need to design advertising material that fit or it would remove the immersion. Not so much a problem with futuristic stuff (like Mass Effect or Warhammer), but could cause an issue with fantasy-themed games.
I want to hear more about this system, only because so far it doesn't sound like anything new.
Agreed. Alternatively, or perhaps in combination with, one could also have various sponsor logos and slogans appear during load screens (short videos would annoy me and the logos isn't exactly a thrilling idea either but it's easier to swallow, IMO). _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
What happens when(and not if) staff screw up and you end up going home with a useless(still locked) copy? And since most loss of stock(shoplifting/shrinkage)is caused by staff, what's to stop them abusing the system?
I think you and I are setting our sights on similar concerns, Ted. Whether it be a small retail outlet or a massive storage warehouse, it would seem the greatest immediate liability are the actual staff members...And yet, if you can't trust your staff to carry out certain duties and tasks you might as well close up shop.
What? Like Woolworths? Shops charge their customers extra to cover what gets stolen/broken, so will any extra benefits get passed on to the customers if something like this works? I doubt it myself.
As for how it might work? I'd bet on some sort of writable section on the disc that gets a specific code writen to it at the point of sale, which means a new DVD format(not sure that would be allowed though). Blu-ray discs already have this writable sector on every disc, placed there by Sony as part of it's now discarded original copy protection scheme(the first BD player the disc is played in was meant to write it's own unique code to the disc, preventing it from playing on any other machine, and if that disc was copied later and found by Sony, that machine would be black listed on all future BD releases, and yes, they really can do that!). _________________ "D'oh!! Those were the droids we were looking for"
XBL:TED1138
STEAM:ted1138
What happens when(and not if) staff screw up and you end up going home with a useless(still locked) copy? And since most loss of stock(shoplifting/shrinkage)is caused by staff, what's to stop them abusing the system?
I think you and I are setting our sights on similar concerns, Ted. Whether it be a small retail outlet or a massive storage warehouse, it would seem the greatest immediate liability are the actual staff members...And yet, if you can't trust your staff to carry out certain duties and tasks you might as well close up shop.
What? Like Woolworths? Shops charge their customers extra to cover what gets stolen/broken, so will any extra benefits get passed on to the customers if something like this works? I doubt it myself.
As for how it might work? I'd bet on some sort of writable section on the disc that gets a specific code writen to it at the point of sale, which means a new DVD format(not sure that would be allowed though). Blu-ray discs already have this writable sector on every disc, placed there by Sony as part of it's now discarded original copy protection scheme(the first BD player the disc is played in was meant to write it's own unique code to the disc, preventing it from playing on any other machine, and if that disc was copied later and found by Sony, that machine would be black listed on all future BD releases, and yes, they really can do that!).
Which outrages me and makes me neither want to support the Blu-Ray format nor any of Sony's products period. Sony created SecuROM and for that they deserve years of pain, misery and financial ruination. They've earned it, the scummy, spying bastards! _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
As for how it might work? I'd bet on some sort of writable section on the disc that gets a specific code writen to it at the point of sale, which means a new DVD format(not sure that would be allowed though). Blu-ray discs already have this writable sector on every disc, placed there by Sony as part of it's now discarded original copy protection scheme(the first BD player the disc is played in was meant to write it's own unique code to the disc, preventing it from playing on any other machine, and if that disc was copied later and found by Sony, that machine would be black listed on all future BD releases, and yes, they really can do that!).
That wasn't part of the original Bluray format. It's part of BR+ developed by Cryptography Research, back by companies such as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, LG, Intel etc but was never implemented. _________________ must be something about the PS3 that jut sucks the Intelligance and compaosure from your body - WHERESMYMONKEY
I guess I kind of agree with this, but I think its unesessary as pretty much every game shop I have ever been in display a blank case and get the genuine article out from behind the counter once you pay so I can't see how this would deter theives stealing a blank case. The other issue would be that although I am strongly against it I can see physical media dissapearing in the next 5 years or so in favour of digital downloads.
The other thing I have doubts about is the reduced cost. Sure it might save the industry a few bob(in theory), but I'm guessing us consumers are unlikely to reap any reward from it. _________________ My Machines...Xbox360(Premium), Ps3(60gb), Ps2, Ps1, Dreamcast, Sega Gamegear, Desktop P.C, Laptop P.C
Past Machines...Atari 2600, Acorn Electron, Gameboy, Master System, Megadrive, MegaCD2, 32x, Snes, GBA SP, Gamecube, Xbox, Psp
Firstly this is just a test, and if it works, they will just keep going further and further.
Secondly, of course, it's too late for the PC format, as, if what my friends tell me is correct, and if my local stores are anything to go by, is on it's last legs retail-wise and so this will not help.
more $hit to make it more inconvenient for the buying consumer _________________ I HATE fanboys, fanboy - "Fanboys are noted for a very emotional attachment to their chosen subject, often taking negative remarks about it as a personal attack."
Then again, are things really that bad?
As far as I know the video game business is doing better now than at any time in the past. Sure, PC games are down at retail, but look at how many new gamers are being brought to the table by Nintendo these days.
There are two groups pushing the whole "piracy is destroying the industry" movement, on one side you have the publishers that are looking to make as much money as possible, and on the other side are companies trying to sell their "anti-piracy" products to those publishers............ _________________ "D'oh!! Those were the droids we were looking for"
XBL:TED1138
STEAM:ted1138
Wow that tech for Blu-Ray is evil. What would the whole point in restricting as to how many machines it runs on. I for example have a total of 5 machines i can run dvds on in my house. Now can anyone explain how awkward that would be if I could only run a dvd on one machine. Thank you for not implementing that evil tech!
As for PC retail sales down my guess would be that digital distribution and cheaper online store prices have failed High Street shop prices therefore reducing the amount of sales. Why would I pay an extra 5 or 10 pounds for a game I could buy on the internet, get delivered to my door and not even have to leave my house for?!?! Console games generally are about the same price wise hence why the large majority of stores now do not hold pc games or if they do not huge sections. _________________ AJ
Blog - http://ajb123644.blogspot.com
Reviewing Site - http://theaaapartnership.wordpress.com
Together we are strong and United we will stand. As PC Gamers come together United we shall be Victorious!
more $hit to make it more inconvenient for the buying consumer
Aye. At times it really does seem as though various force in the games industry are hellbent on having a paying customer like myself walk away and find other things to do. I'd rather it not come to that but if they push hard enough they'll find that their products/services are not above the usual market forces. _________________ "Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer." - imbiginjapan
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And since most loss of stock(shoplifting/shrinkage)is caused by staff, what's to stop them abusing the system? 
