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CNN AMERICAN MORNING WITH PAULA ZAHN
Interview with Cliff May, Steve McMahon
Aired October 7, 2002 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq. In his nationally televised speech tonight, President Bush is expected to address the concerns some Americans have about using force against Iraq. But some Democrats are already questioning his motives and they're using the "P" word, politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: We cannot play politics with this. This is about people's life and death. It is about peace or war. And I believe to pull politics into it, and I've told my members this from the beginning, is immoral.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: But who is more responsible for injecting politics into the debate on Iraq?
Joining us now are former Republican strategist Cliff May and Democratic strategist Steve McMahon.
Good morning, gentlemen.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER GOP STRATEGIST: Good morning.
STEVE MCMAHON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.
ZAHN: Welcome to you both. MAY: Thank you.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
ZAHN: Cliff, I'm going to start with you this morning. We are just four weeks, obviously, before a midterm election. You head what Dick Gephardt just said, saying it's immoral to bring politics into the question. But clearly Congressman Bonior and McDermott have done just that. And what about what Trent Lott did over the weekend when he essentially compared all Democrats with Congressman Bonior and McDermott, who visited Iraq? MAY: Yes, there's two concepts of politics here. One is should voters through the political process decide what approach to take in regard to foreign policy, in regard to issues of war and peace? And I think there's no better way to decide these questions than through the political process we have.
I think what Mr. Gephardt means, and I think he's right, is that it's more important that we win the war against terrorism, the war against Saddam Hussein, than that Republicans or Democrats win at the polls in November. I think most people feel that way. So that's why I think he's saying, rightly, that elected officials, people running for office, they should say what they think, they should say how they're going to vote and let the voters decide on that basis, not make cheap political calculations designed to help themselves at the polls, but not designed to help the U.S. win the war it's now fighting.
ZAHN: But, Steve, aren't politicians going to have to make that kind of calculation, particularly those of who are in close elections and think they have to go with the way the American public seems to be going on the issue of Iraq right now?
MCMAHON: Absolutely. And there are a lot of Democrats who believe that's why Dick Gephardt is where he is on this, because those people in very close races are in races where they want to be able to support the president. They don't want there to be a division in the Democratic Party, although that does seem to be emerging.
I think it's interesting, I've never heard Cliff speak so fondly of Dick Gephardt before. I'm going to have to mention that to Mr. Gephardt, that he's got the former Republican spokesperson over here saying such nice things about him. MAY: Well...
MCMAHON: But clearly there is going to be an election issue here that is going to be debated. And I think anybody would be well advised to simply vote their conscience. MAY: But, see, I think Steve is exactly right in this, both of what he said. I am praising Dick Gephardt and I'm also, and I think Steve is also right when he says there is an important division right now in the Republican Party. On the one hand, you do have the so-called Baghdad boys. You have Bonior and you have McDermott who go to Baghdad, go to Iraq and say while they're there we should take Saddam Hussein on face value, but I wouldn't trust the president.
On the other hand, you have people like Dick Gephardt, you have people like Joe Lieberman, you have people like Senator Evan Bayh, who are taking very, I think, very principled and also correct positions that we have a real problem with Saddam Hussein getting weapons of mass destruction, we cannot let that happen.
ZAHN: There is clearly not a unified Democratic voice, Steve.
MCMAHON: No, there's not. In fact...
ZAHN: And how much is that hurting the party?
MCMAHON: Well, I don't know. I mean how much did it hurt the Republicans when there wasn't a unified administration? I mean it wasn't so long ago that the Secretary of Defense wanted to go to war and the Secretary of State did not. And it was clear that there was a division inside the administration.
I think there is a division inside our party and I think it's a healthy one. I mean, after all, two or three weeks ago the president wasn't talking about weapons of mass destruction, he was talking about regime change. He wasn't talking about going to Congress, he was going to go it alone. He wasn't going to build a coalition, he was going to go it alone. And he wasn't going to go through the U.N.
Because Democrats questioned that approach, I believe the president is going about it in a much more reasonable, rational way, that's much more likely to earn the support of allies, the American public and the U.N. Security Council.
ZAHN: Let's take a look at the numbers so far, Cliff, based on what Steve just said, because polls really bear it out. A poll from late September showing that only 38 percent of Americans would support an attack on Iraq unilaterally. It goes on to say that that number jumps to a whopping 79 percent if you have the support of the international community.
What it at stake for the president tonight? MAY: Well, I think the president at this point is making a strong case, which the Democrats asked him to make, that Saddam Hussein, a guy who is a mass murderer, a guy who tried to wipe out a neighboring country with plans to wipe out others, a guy who tried to assassinate an American president, that Saddam Hussein believes the Gulf War is only in a small pause. The mistake he made in 1991 is that he didn't have nuclear weapons when he took on the U.S. He's not going to make that mistake again.
I think Bush needs to show how important this is. Look, if at any time in the first nine months of 2001 I had gone on this show and said, look, it's vital that we get serious about removing Saddam Hussein and if that means regime change in Afghanistan, we've got to go through it, people could have said well, why now and do you have to do it and shouldn't the U.N. be allowed to intervene, are we sure Osama bin Laden is so dangerous?
We now know we have another person exactly like Osama bin Laden, just as dangerous, maybe more so. The question is are we going to do something about it?
By the way, Democrats did understand this in a more united fashion in 1998, when, under Clinton and Gore, they passed the Iraq Liberation Act, which called for regime change, which called for the use of military force. The question is how much longer do we wait and let him develop these weapons of mass destruction? I think most people do get it.
ZAHN: All right, Steve, you get the last word this morning.
MCMAHON: Well, I think it was interesting that this guy has been a problem for 11 years and something happened apparently in the last 11 weeks and this is changing the subject from the domestic policies that frankly Democrats would like to debate a little bit more and the public, frankly, would like to hear a little bit more about. Maybe in the next week we can get this out of the way and we can not just have an election about Iraq, but we can have an election about the future of this country and people's economic and retirement security, as well. MAY: We need to deal with all those issues, Paula, but something did happen, not in the last few weeks. Something happened on September 11, 2001 that has to make us change the way we do business, the way we do foreign policy. I think a lot of Democrats are understanding that. I think in time a lot more will.
ZAHN: Now, Steve, you really get the last word. About five seconds.
MCMAHON: Thank you very much. No, listen, Cliff and I aren't so far apart on the Iraq thing. I think it's going to be resolved this week and I think we'll hopefully be debating other subjects pretty soon.
ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, thanks for your time this morning.
Cliff May, Steve McMahon, glad to have you with us. MAY: Thank you.
MCMAHON: Good to be here.
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