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D20 News: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy
Posted 2003-04-30 22:34:12 by damonwhite

D20 Publisher News realmprotector Reports: The Book of Erotic Fantasy author tells us more:

"Well, everyone has their own philosophy about an optimal game. For some, it's lots of combat. Others add a bit or a bucket of blood and gore. Some like social intrigues and sessions where combat dice are

never rolled. Whatever works for you.

This product is written with those who want to include elements of sexuality in their games. It includes concepts like tantric magic. It explores issues of sex in society. Naturally, it will include rules on STDs and pregnancy.

It's all about good rules, beautiful or evocative images, and creating an atmosphere of sexuality (though flavor text).

Why would I write it? Hmm. Tough to answer because the question that arises in my mind is why wouldn't I write it? Is it that much different than a Big Book of Fey, Wizards, or Abominations? Maybe.

Not everyone would have this out on their coffee table. But some people also hide their D&D; books when their coworkers come over, too.

It's really a question of what your interests are and whether you're comfortable with the topic of sex.

I've enjoyed gaming, editing, and writing for years. I've also been interested in such works as the Kama Sutra and the Joy of Sex. I feel pretty comfortable with it. And what I don't know, I research.

Research doesn't mean boring. It means learning and understanding well enough to give an accurate representation.

I've not been pregnant (nor has my coauthor). Does that prevent either of us from finding out about rates of reproduction and rendering it in game terms? No.

I approach it seriously, just as if I were writing a book about the underground and wanted to include information about cave formations. That, too, is all about good mechanics, evocative pictures, and good flavor text.

The topics, vocabulary, and explicitness are different, but my philosophical approach is the same.

The book deals with sex. Sex in a d20 game.

On ENWorld, I read questions about S/M and bondage and speculation about content. Yes, it touches on topics like bondage, but that's just one of many aspects of sexuality. It's not the Big Book of Bondage. It's the Book of Erotic Fantasy."


 
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Most read story in D20 Publisher News:
Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game Releases October 2003


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"D20 News: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy" | Login/Create an account | 54 Reader Comments
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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 1)
by palehorse on Apr 30, 2003 - 11:40 PM
(User info | Send a Message) http://www.gamingreport.com
In the earlier posting re: AndyCollins.net response, there is mention made of respecting the authors' right to create this particular work. I'm absolutely all for that; in none of my postings (and I've made a few) on this subject, I've never said that the book shouldn't be published for any particular moral, ethical, or legal reason. If you want to write it, write it. If someone wants to publish it, thats great. If stores want to stock it (and ensure that it remains out of the hands of minors), thats dandy. If anyone chooses to buy it and use it, thats certainly their prerogative.


So in the interests of creative freedom, I'd like to exercise my own by keeping the debate about this book alive. I can only imagine that the publishers are taking an 'any publicity is good publicity' stance, as most creators do when an outcry is raised against their works. That may be so; those of us who are railing against this particular book may be driving people to buy it (though I imagine they're primarily people who would have bought it anyway, regardless of the source they might have heard of it).


Nevertheless, my core contention is simply this: For all the tables and charts and stats this may contain, I can say with a fair degree that, no matter how one may try to 'pretty it up' by calling erotic, its primary usage will be as a stroke book for teenage boys. Thats what porn on the internet is for, of course; I don't believe that we need it at the gaming table.


I'm certain that the creators would love to prove me wrong, and I invite them to: once the book is out, send us a copy here at GamingReport so that one of the staff reviewers can have a look. If I'm wrong (and honestly, I do hope that I am; contrary to what some might believe, I hope that every gaming book that I get is going to be a knockout) I will gladly be the first to admit it.


Butch Curry



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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 01:16 AM
This doesn't make sense from a rpg business perspective. Very few gamers involve sex as a major topic/theme in their D&D; games. If anything, sex seems to be as private in fantasy worlds as it is in the real one. As a gamer, I see no use for a book that contains rules for sex. It reminds me of the D&D; parody.

"If there are any girls there, I want to do them!"

Perhaps if it were marketed towards the S/M crowd rather than the gaming crowd, it would be better received. Since the advent of the OGL, many people have been trying to fill in gaps that D&D; hasn't filled, such as D&D; in space (Dragonstar), alternate D&D; (Arcana Unearthed), or point buy D&D; (BESM d20).

However, some gaps are left empty for a reason. The words "can" and "should" are brought to my mind. Not to say that someone can't release a D&D; book on sex, but I sure don't want to be one of the investors in the project. That's money wasted.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 07:29 AM
What kind of society do we live in where we accept violence as normal but any little hint of eroticism gets slapped as porn? It sickens me to be an American where we still live under a Puritanical yoke and struggle to find our sexual identities.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 08:45 AM
Should someone create a book on erotic fantasy that details sex in a rpg? Yes, it's the First Amendment. I'm a big believer in that right. Will it be a work of creative expression? Of course. Is it a totally stupid idea? Of course. Just because it may be someone's right to publish stupid crap the result will be the same-- stupid crap. Ms. Kestrel can tell us how much research, effort, and seriousness went into this book just like the research, effort, and seriousness of any writer, artist, or movie producer had and still produce a work of crap.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 09:11 AM
Unfortunately I think all this publicity is going to make Ms. Kestrel and her partners a lot more money than they deserve.
By the way, for the sake of research and knowledge, why didn't they include pictures of someone suffering the effects of an STD?


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 09:13 AM
Why didn't you just make an erotic coffee table book on fantasy images instead of pretending you can write adventure rule books?


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 02:18 PM
Uh, pardon me for appearing Ignorant here - but who is Ms Kestrel? What books has she written? I don't think I've noticed her name on anything I own...


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 04:05 PM
There's no way it could be as horrific as "FATAL". A review of a game that handles sexuality irresponsibly can be found here, but you really shouldn't go to look at it. Even the review makes one's eyes bleed.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 05:05 PM
Just a few points and a question…

First, no gaming book has universal use. The three main books, the Player’s Handbook, the Dungeon Masters Guide and the Monster Manual, are the only three essential books, assuming it is a D&D; game. Therefore, for example, not every one uses the Secret College of Necromancy or the Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings, even though those are well-written and useful books. Asserting that a book must be used by everyone is a specious assertion deliberately meant to cloud the real issues.

Secondly, sexuality has figured in games in the past (a statement made from personal experience: one of my player characters, with the assistance of another player character, ran a brothel between adventures), from DM’s winging it to people using the net-book of Carnal Knowledge.

Thirdly, the book will likely be a commercial success based solely on the sexual content and the controversy (such things sell like hot cakes).

Fourth, it will not damage the hobby or industry. What with the war on terrorism, the economy and other issues, people have better things to do with their time than kill D&D; over a sex book. Nor is the fact that it is sexual in nature overwhelmingly damning. White Wolf has outright published material on necrophilia. If the hobby and industry can handle horny, sadomasochistic vampires then it can handle (pardon the expression) elf cleavage.

That said, how much actual active tabletop game use do you think this book will get?

At the risk of being blunt, (and admittedly without seeing the book) it seems likely it will get the same use as an issue of Hustler or a book of Kevin Taylor art. That is to say, personal and private use.

It simply seems unlikely that this book will find anything like the game use of even Secret College of Necromancy let alone the Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings.

Even in the game with the brothel (which the GM disliked as he was uptight and wanted to run a mostly clerics and paladins game but humored Ian and I with the house of ill repute) the sexuality took place “off stage,” so to speak. Seduction rolls were sometimes made, and two characters were quite active (proactive even), but the discussions were never graphic. At one point, a husband a wife joined the group and their characters were also sexually active – but again, the discussions were never graphic.

If you are actually aiming to broaden the horizons of gamers and to make them confront personal hypocrisy, you will probably be disappointed.

By comparison, Madonna has spent two decades doing that and while her work is a commercial success, she is widely despised.

Sullivan


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 01, 2003 - 08:51 PM
Does any one else find it funny that something that was a running Joke in Dragon Magazine for years in What's Next is actually coming out in a book?!

Sorry, I can't be upset or offended. I'm too busy ROFL...;)

More power to ya. Eroticism is part of what attracted people to Vampire in the early 90s and there is plenty of erotic amateur fantasy fiction online.

Of course, shhhh.... I don't want the Christian Coalition griping about this... The "Book of Vile Darkness" was enough.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 02, 2003 - 07:32 AM
This isn't even worth the time I'm taking to type this, who cares? Buy it or ignore it. If it works in your campaign, good for you.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 02, 2003 - 07:32 AM
This isn't even worth the time I'm taking to type this: who cares? Buy it or ignore it. If it works in your campaign, good for you.


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 02, 2003 - 08:09 AM
It does not ceace to amuse me, how people often judge products, that are only announced. Lets wait and see how this book handles sex and erotica.
Many people believes that this book will mainly be a pornography book, but I beg to differ. That would be a really dumb move on the part of the writers, and the given info suggests something far from it. Yes, it will be an adult book, but does that really matter? I mean, is "The Book of Vile Darkness" not also a adult books ("mature" books, in the case of WW). Other companies have no problems in releasing "questionable" books with mature contents and does not create half of this fuss.
Let us wait and see what this book is really about, before passing judgement. Besides, why should we let the religious comminities tell us what to like or not. We live in a free world, so make up your own mind and wait with the judgements, until you have read the book. It might just surprise you, as "Demon: the Fallen" did to many.
Would I buy it? Perhaps. It really much depends on wether it is tastefully handled or not. "The Book of Vile Darkness" (a weak book IMO) deals with more damning material than mere sex and is released by WotC. IMO their stance is quite double-morally.
Why is murder, genocide, rape, torture, and so on acceptable in D&D; when sex is not? Most people have sex, only a very small percentage kill and torture other people!

- The Lost Soul


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Re: Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel on the Book of Erotic Fantasy(Score: 0)
by An Anonymous Reader on May 02, 2003 - 12:42 PM
This only shows how stupid D&D; is. Real rpgs don't deal with such moronic concepts of erotica, slayer guides, classes, segments, thacos, hp, ac, and such. To make a book to detail every aspect of how to roleplay in it from extra rule books to how to roleplay sex only shows the greed of the d20 movement in trying to grab every dollar, the disrespect the game designers have toward their audience (to design books to encompass every rule and situation imaginable becuase they think their audience is completely unimaginative and stupid to be creative on their own). Do you want your game designers to tell you how to deal with every situation or create a rule for you? This is the same kind of corporate drone thinking that Hollywood does to produce really horrible movies that replace glamer and special effects instead of plot, character development, and true storylines. Crappy movies like the Lord of the Rings (both of them), Harry Potter (both of them), all the Star Wars movies, X-men and X2 (I saw that today and walked out of the middle of the movie completely disgusted), Star Trek (all versions), and The Matrix (mindless unimaginative dribble). I for one will not waste my money to read books that try to provide a rule for every situation (like this erotica book) and be a sucker who just gives up his money like a good little sheep.


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