It is good that BBC Radio 4 is middle class

By Jeff Randall

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Having migrated from BBC Five Live - home of the demotic phone-in - Woman's Hour's new presenter Jane Garvey complains that there is a "massively middle-class bent to every programme on Radio 4". Jane, if the definition of "middle-class bent" is a focus on issues that affect law-abiding, tax-paying people, who care more about their children's schooling than a holiday in Florida, prefer home-cooked meals to junk-food takeaways, still read books and would rather listen to commentary in the Queen's English than gutter patois, then there's something in what you say. And three cheers to that. advertisement The BBC should not be apologising for a radio station that, more than any other part of Auntie's sprawling empire, clings to the basic tenets of Lord Reith's mission: to educate, inform and explain. If this is middle class, at least it is a civilising force. In a corporation that is obsessed with promoting diversity, inclusivity and accessibility - code words for non-white, non-shires and non-conservative views - Radio 4 is the last redoubt for millions of listeners who select their broadcaster on quality of output, rather than its role in social engineering. Heaven knows, there is plenty of choice for those who find Radio 4's content too taxing. From the triviality of some (not all) BBC local radio to the banality of Jonathan Ross and the vulgarity of BBC 3's F*** Off, I'm Ginger, it's not difficult to tune into the alternative culture of airheads, boors and chavs. There is a myth that Radio 4 is an exclusive service for posh people in the Home Counties. This is rubbish. It's a forum for intelligent debate and a provider of high-brow news for anyone with a desire to escape the inanity of celebrity voyeurism, cheap game shows and property porn. About 9 million people listen to Radio 4 for at least 15 minutes a week. The average listener tunes in for nearly 13 hours. More than half of Radio 4's listeners do not have a university degree. About one quarter comes from the C2DE social group and fewer than 50 per cent live in southern England. Inside the BBC, anxiety about Radio 4's tone and style is made worse by worries that the station sounds "a bit too white", as if ethnic minorities are interested in world events, current affairs, drama, comedy and the arts only if they are scripted or presented by people of the same race. It's so patronising. But, let's for a minute, accept the false assumption that Radio 4 does cater largely for house-owning, well-educated types in rich bits of England who know the difference between a Canaletto and Cannelloni. And let's assume also that many of these are Daily Telegraph subscribers. So what? The BBC has an Asian Network, a black music station, Welsh language, Irish language and Scots Gaelic output. The World Service talks to people in places that most of us have never heard of. On the website, there's BBC Urdu, BBC Bangla and many others besides. Why shouldn't there be a station that's appreciated largely by the Coping Classes in leafy suburbs? Radio 4 is by no means perfect. All too often it collapses in a heap at the feet of political correctness. Some of its presenters drive me crazy. Yet it remains a haven for those who still believe that clarity of language matters. Having worked full time at the BBC for nearly five years, I know precisely how much care and attention go into Radio 4's 6pm bulletin, still the gold standard of broadcast news. Mangled English, poor grammar and confused syntax are not tolerated. It appreciates simplicity and wit. Better still, the bulk of Radio 4's output has yet to embrace the horror of unfiltered phone-ins, where instead of listening to the views of principal players and expert pundits, we are invited to enjoy the crackpot theories of deranged conspiracists, whose main sources of information seem to be either what a bloke told them in the pub or Old Moore's Almanack. Garvey's "middle class" observation was, of course, meant as a criticism. By contrast, nobody in his right mind would say publicly that a BBC station has too many unemployed listeners or that its output is excessively underclass. And woe betide any BBC presenter who had the temerity to sneer at West Indians or Muslims. But the middle classes, and especially their white members, are still considered fair game. The same is true in other walks of life, including politics. As an alumnus of two of our finest institutions, Eton College and Oxford University, David Cameron is now dismissed by Labour's class warriors as "a toff", someone who is "too posh" to understand the rest of us. For the likes of Hazel Blears, Old Etonian is now a perfectly acceptable term of abuse. I could think of many reasons for not supporting the Tory leader, but the burden of his world-class education is not among them. It is a weird world we live in, where the privilege of learning is seen as a badge of shame. Unfortunately, this reverse snobbery has taken hold inside the BBC. Indeed, I suspect I was a beneficiary of it. With my Essex upbringing and estuary accent, I fitted in rather well (in theory, but not in practice) with an organisation that was trying, though never admitting it, to purge public-school voices from the airwaves. On several occasions, I heard senior output editors criticise well known male and female reporters for sounding "too snooty". It was infuriating. I was all for sacking useless correspondents - this never happened - but the idea that experienced staffers were being downgraded because of their textbook diction and enunciation was offensive. I remember having lunch with an Asian colleague who joked that we were the new elite. His skin and my voice trumped Winchester and Brasenose every time. As for Garvey's unwanted middle classes, who are they? Where do they come from? Do we assess them by background, education, accent, manners, housing, income, wealth, employment, aspiration or a combination of all these factors? How far up the social ladder do you need to climb before becoming middle class? Or is class like caste, permanent in this life? A friend of mine endured near poverty in childhood as part of an Asian family in Wolverhampton. But he worked his way to Cambridge and later secured a job as a columnist on a broadsheet national newspaper. Is he middle class? The answer for Radio 4 is that it does not matter. As Andrew Marr, the golden boy of BBC current affairs, rightly observed: "The BBC must always try to reflect Britain, which is mostly a provincial, middle-of-the road country. Britain is not a mirror image of the BBC or the people who work for it." Radio 4 should remain unashamedly middle class.

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Related articles 7 February 2008: Radio 4 boss: so what if we're middle class 29 January 2008: The Coping Classes - Part 1: Why do we all feel so damn poor?

Radio 4 has some seriously thought-provoking and interesting discussions but there is an unmistakable left-wing, pro-Islam, pro-EU, pro female bias.

Well-spoken, well-argued points of view are a pleasure to listen to. But there is a certain toffie-nosedness affected by some presenters and guests - along with the fake accents of social climbers - which is mildly nauseating. It does little for the cause of the middle classes.

Quality is everything. While Radio has plenty of it, it still has plenty of room for improvement.
Posted by Classless on February 8, 2008 10:52 PM
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"The left has never stopped using it - not even the new-stinking-rich Labour politicians with public schooling such a Tony B."

Stop talking rubbish.

Tony B and what he stood for WAS middle class - and to hell with the old class war nonsense that Labour has traditionally represented.

It was one of the great things about Tony B - and why the stupid mudflinging that brought him down was a mistake.

Posted by Joe on February 8, 2008 8:25 PM
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Spot on Jeff. Jane Garvey is middle class - all girls school, university educated. By comparison, many of my friends and family are working class and they enjoy Radio 4. Some cannot understand why my friends and colleagues who went to university relax with Jonathan Ross and Footballers Wives. I tell them that they are often interested in doing rather than educating themselves broadly. Of course, their doing often involves imposing their distant perspectives on everyone else.
Posted by J P Harrison on February 8, 2008 8:19 PM
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I agree with most of the article at least about R4 being the Gold Standard. I used to listen to it daily but after leaving England 8 years ago because I couldn’t afford to live there any more, there is one better, it’s the BBC World Service. No licence fee either.

As for being Middle Class, sorry I thought you lot in the UK had become a classless society.

No, the only point of objection with the Middle Class is that Power really does reside with that group BUT they always refuse to take it because they are content (or lazy).

Listen on, brothers, listen on..
Posted by Paul M. Wilson on February 8, 2008 7:03 PM
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Spot on - the communists et al used this tactic of sneering at the middle and upper 'classes' 100 years ago. The left has never stopped using it - not even the new-stinking-rich Labour politicians with public schooling such as Tony B. They really do need to change their stick-in-the-mud attitudes. It seems we the public have moved on, but their doctrine hasn't.
Posted by Hagar on February 8, 2008 6:53 PM
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Spot on - the communists et al used this phrase 100 years ago. The left has never stopped using it - not even the new-stinking-rich Labour politicians with public schooling such a Tony B.
Posted by Hagar on February 8, 2008 6:46 PM
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Jeff hits a nail on the head with every para. But
Radio 4 still needs to clean up its act and discover
that infer does not mean "imply", disaster does not
mean"tragedy", disinterested does not mean
"uninterested", that nothing can be "more perfect"
and generally that the English language is our most
valuable asset, and should not be abused.
Posted by David Loshak on February 8, 2008 6:46 PM
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Rastus C Tastey (5.10)is so right. Presenters talking patronisingly of 'class' like Jane Garvey are so passe. Why doesn't she, and many other 'liberal-lefty do-gooders' in the BBC, 'change and 'move on' from this class labelling?
P.S. The person who pushed the phrase 'the world is changing and we have to change' (Blair) and the BBC 'top men' (who are rolling in it) should 'draw the line' and 'change' this class-obsessed attitude once and for all, otherwise they will get accused of being (horror of left-wing horrors) RESISTANT TO CHANGE.
Posted by S.Petersen on February 8, 2008 6:33 PM
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I agree with Ms. Garvey, Radio 4 should be far less middle-class... and far more intelligent. In recent years I feel it has dumbed-down considerably.

It has been a long time since I've associated "middle classness" with intelligence, education or even just good manners. The days it seems to largely a matter of having an Audi (BMW 4x4 for the school run), booming ignorant opinions across restaurants, expecting that your Buy-to-Let investments will only ever go up and whining about taxation. Much of Radio 4's output is becoming "middle class" in precisely this way, filled with braying, coarse, consumerist nonsense.


Posted by RebelRob on February 8, 2008 6:26 PM
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so, apart from Jeff, did any of Jane's other listeners (and the rest of the Radio4 punters, for that matter) have a pop back?

or not?


Posted by 32parklane on February 8, 2008 6:18 PM
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Yep.

Not only have goddamn chavs and related low life taken over popular culture, now one of the last bastions of civil, lets be friendly, educated, intelligent, subtle, enquiring Radio is getting criticised for being "middle class" which just means those things.

To hell with chavs and related low life - there's plenty to cater for your gutter kind, and Radio 4 doesn't have to listen to you.


Posted by Joe on February 8, 2008 6:13 PM
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An American friend who came to stay with us for a week quickly became hooked on Radio 4. He'd never heard anything like it and was astonished that such high quality radio could exist anywhere.

Radio 4 is one of the few truly brilliant public institutions left. That, of course, is why the sneering metropolitan classes want to spoil it.
Posted by PaulD on February 8, 2008 6:11 PM
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Middle class is always better than no class.
Radio 4 keep it coming.
Posted by r brady on February 8, 2008 5:51 PM
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Here, here, or should it be hear, hear.
Posted by sara ayshford sanford on February 8, 2008 5:48 PM
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I say Jeff Randall should be the next Director General!!!!!
Posted by James on February 8, 2008 5:43 PM
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Isn't Jane Garvey a bit passée?

"Bourgeois bashing" was all the rage when I was at a new university - UEA - in the 1960's but I thought we had all moved on from there.

D.H. Lawrence's poem which starts: "How beastly the bourgeois is, especially the male of the species.." was inspirational stuff for dim-witted pseudo-intellectuals in those days.

But, sadly, John Betjeman was far too much of a gentleman and never got round to writing something in retaliation like:

The lumpen proletariat is smelly, dirty, rude,
They have no taste or manners and their bodies are tattooed.
But a woman who is common with graffiti on her bum,
Is not the sort of person that I'd choose to be my chum.

In fact for some strange reason it is quite acceptable for people to mock the toffs and the middle classes but quite uncacceptable for the toffs or middle classes to say nasty things about the plebs!


Posted by Rastus C. Tastey on February 8, 2008 5:10 PM
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As his way, Jeff Randall, echoed my own setiments in being direct and to the point. A voice of sanity in a world mired in confounded political correctness.
I listen to a variety of programmes because I enjoy from them whether it be the Moral Maze,Today, Dr.Mark Porter's Case Notes or The Archers!
If Jane Garvey had such a bee in her bonnet about Radio 4 she should have declined the offer to join Women's Hour. Perhaps she should remember that we the listeners pay her wages.
Mr. Randall, I am with you shoulder to shoulder. To quote Churchill,'Keep B-------g On!'

Posted by STEPHEN REES on February 8, 2008 4:39 PM
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In answer to Geezer on February 8, 2008 3:36 PM.

I commend you for informing the majority of middle class Britain, in such a polite way, that they are sheeple.

Which, of course, they are, so let's hope they read your comment and wake up to the reality of their plight, and soon, for after July this year it will be too late.




Posted by Charles Crosby on February 8, 2008 4:01 PM
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Please go back to BBC 4 and try to maintain standards.We need people like you to speak up for us middle class folk.I hope the Director General has read your artical.
Posted by James Venn on February 8, 2008 3:49 PM
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It's more about taste than class - some middle or even upper class people like mindless, noisy pop music, but we don't want that on R4 (although it's creeping in). No doubt some middle class people listen to the overfamiliar, chummy, with-it news readers on other channels, usually accompanied by drum beats, and we don't want that either on R4. Radio 4 alone is worth the license fee, even though, like most UK institutions, it's rotten to the core with political correctness - that has to cease or it will spoil.
Posted by Dr Stuart H Russell on February 8, 2008 3:46 PM
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Radio 4 is Guadianista left-wing garbage and symbolises all that is wrong with the BBC. It is so ironic, that the people the BBC despises the most, i.e. the provincal, middle-aged, middle-classes, are the ones that are most attached to the outdated concept of the BBC and it rotten telly tax funding.
Despite the inherent middle-classness of the BBC, it only represents the political views of the minority left-wing middle-classes. Mainstream Middle-class opinions are ridiculed or ignored in favour of lefty PC rubbish. But, the middle-classes are blind to this, because they still see this rotten organisation as representing them, if only, because of the nice middle-class accents and the fact that the C2s and below do not appreciate it. They see it as something they own. The licence fee is fetishised by the middle-classes, they know it's not right, but they can't help likeing it! probably because it is the only time when the poor have to susidise, something the middle-classes want, rather than the other way round, as it usually is.
Posted by Geezer on February 8, 2008 3:36 PM
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Hang on International Man of Leisure like you I listen to R4 in the States but unlike you go back to Gay Gordon, Miliblip, Yvette Bollocks, Slapper Flint et al, I dont think so. NuLab wrecked Great Britain. Jeff keep up the column.
Posted by Tony Blarie, Beanville on February 8, 2008 3:27 PM
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Are the collective of BBC staffers Middle Class or some overpaid/overblown special class of citizens?
Posted by Conkeyron on February 8, 2008 3:17 PM
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Radio 4 (over the net) is my lifeline to sanity in a country served by such laughable attempts at "news" channels as CNN and Fox News. If I want the real news, thankfully I only have to turn on my computer. Listening to R4 reminds me why I am proud to be British and why I am leaving the USA this year, never to return.
Posted by International Man of Leisure on February 8, 2008 3:06 PM
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I agree with everything you say, JR, but your comment "It was infuriating. I was all for sacking useless correspondents - this never happened" made me laugh. I was looking forward to the day went you got your P45 - not because of your accent but for the histrionic delivery - a mantle taken up with great operatic gusto by Robert Peston
Posted by John on February 8, 2008 2:50 PM
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Long live Radio 4. Intelligent, informative and balanced, it has no equal. And long live Radio 4 Long Wave, which enables me to listen over most of Northern Europe. Please don't change to DAB with it's limited and over sensitive reception.
Posted by David Witton on February 8, 2008 2:37 PM
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Long live Radio 4. Intelligent, informative and balanced, it has no equal. And long live Radio 4 Long Wave, which enables me to listen over most of Northern Europe. Please don't change to DAB with it's limited and over sensitive reception.
Posted by David Witton on February 8, 2008 2:34 PM
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Spot on Mr. Randall. Britain has problems. Radio 4 is not one of them. Too posh? Middle-class? What?

As a non-Brit journalist who has lived on 3 continents and the UK, Radio 4 is the gold standard in radio on this planet. It is the best of British. Period.
Alexander Prisant
Miami
Posted by A S Prisant on February 8, 2008 2:24 PM
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Maybe it's time for the Telegraph to start its own radio station - I'd tune in.
Posted by Rideronthestorm on February 8, 2008 1:57 PM
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Well done Jeff. Once again you have hit the nail on the head. Soon I shall be deserting my radio just as I have the television. As you say, the BBC caters for other minority groups so why not the so called "middle class".
Posted by Barbara Potter on February 8, 2008 1:56 PM
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If radio 4 was radically changed then I do not believe I would listen to the radio at all, it's the only station I can bear to listen to!
Before you accuse me of being middle caste I live in Brian Redhead country and hail from a mining family!
DO NOT TOUCH RADIO 4
Posted by Jim Golightly on February 8, 2008 1:54 PM
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The article makes some good points - but is entirely spoilt by the author's sneering "I'm better than you" because for some strange reason, without explanation, he assumes that because I holiday in Florida I don't care about my kids' education or how we eat.
Jeff, you are an incredible snob.
Posted by rhubarb on February 8, 2008 1:52 PM
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All true, Jeff.

I do think they need to bin "Quote Unquote" though. It's about as funny as Gordon Brown.
Posted by Nigel Broadbent on February 8, 2008 1:52 PM
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Isn't Jane Garvey married to Adrian Chiles, that incredibly dull brummie presenter of BBC TV "the one show"? That might explain her antipathy to 'posh' accents.
Perhaps she's doing us a favour by reminding us how little is left of our own culture.
Jeff, your comments are spot on, but I fear it's all too late. The horse has bolted! The radio 4 saga is one more example of the rout of traditional values.
The PC tsunami is unstoppable. We needed to speak up a long time ago if we were to preserve some semblance of balance, fairness and sanity in modern Britain.
In terms of influence and power, the 'silent majority' has been silent for so long it's become disenfranchised. Reduced to moaning to each other about the cultural mess we're in, and taking comfort from like-minded journalistic comment in the Telegraph.
It's over! The game is lost. We sat on our hands too long. If we're honest, we probably just didn't have the stomach to stand up for ourselves.
Middle class revolution? A bit late for that!
Posted by Chris Stone on February 8, 2008 1:51 PM
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Does Jane Garvey consider herself Middle Class? If so, why is the BBC employing her?
Posted by S.Petersen on February 8, 2008 1:36 PM
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Completely agree with Jeff on this one. I can't stand any of Radio 5's output that is not live sport (or immediate build-up/post-match analysis). And it is getting worse - the old Sunday 10am show was bad enough, but the new one is even worse precisely because it is trrying to be even more populist than before. The late-night phone-ins are also plumbing new depths (an impressive achievement given what has gone before) with Richard Bacon and the weekend presenter (Stephen Nolan?) Both of them are far too desperate to show how clever they are by making their phone-ins as confrontational as possible, which in turn attracts the worst kind of ill-informed caller and makes for totally tedious listening. Radio 4 is obviously not perfect but it's far, far ahead of Radio 5. Hard to believe one of its own presenters can make this criticism - ship her back to 5.
Posted by Brad on February 8, 2008 1:26 PM
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Radio 4. The thinking mans/womans radio station. If you aren't smart enough to understand this Jane then get off and go back to Five.
Spending many, many years driving over 40,000 miles a year I would have gone mad had it not been for 4. Today, World at 1, Womans Hour (its' not all about PMT), the Afternoon Play, News Quiz, Sorry I Haven't a Clue and so much more. Pure gold.
Isn't it a bit rich too when a presenter picks up a nice income for presenting Womans Hour and then makes the remarks she did. A bit two faced ?
Posted by Clive on February 8, 2008 1:24 PM
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In many ways the licence fee method of financing broadcasting and its public ownership actually works against Radio 4. As things stand it feels forced not only to be accountable for the number of listeners it attracts but also for the age, class and ethnic diversity of its audience. The income Radio 4 receives is an arbitrary proportion of a pot raised by a compulsory poll tax with most of its output obtainable for free outside the UK by the internet and podcasts. The technology exists for stations like Radio 4 to become a subscription "pay as you listen" channel or income could be obtained by voluntary donations along the lines of PBS in the US. My guess is that Radio 4 has the type of brand image that could probably raise far more finance by either of these routes from its loyal listeners than it gets from its current proportion of the licence fee. In those circumstances, Radio 4 could really target its appeal to it's customers, the type of listener Jeff Randall so accurately describes, rather than chase after audiences under some sort of social imperative.
Posted by Grey Groover on February 8, 2008 1:24 PM
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Radio4 middle class and intellectual!
in the word's which would be used by a typical 4 listener 'You're havin' a larf!!
Posted by david on February 8, 2008 1:23 PM
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Thanks Jeff for putting the obvious into print.
But "Radio 4 should remain unashamedly middle class" was a poor note to end on. Unashamedly intelligent would have been better.

Just listen to the audience roar of approval for "I'm sorry I haven't a clue", or the audience delight at "The now show" and its political incorrectness. R4 has been the birthplace of some of our cutting edge comedy talent.
"Book at bedtime" has introduced us to some brilliant modern authors.
Melvyn Bragg's "In our time" is frequently stimulating, particularly while stuck in traffic.

The only blot on the R4 landscape is "Women's Hour". As for Garvey, the silly woman needs to get an education and lighten up. Replace her with Toksvig.
Posted by don on February 8, 2008 1:21 PM
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Are the views of this 'nobody, who also thinks radio 4 has too many cookery programmes for heavens sake, of any importance? Doesn't sound to me as if she knows anything of the station.

And we all know that 'middle class' is a form of abuse in the warped world of the BBC. Ms Nobody is only following the example of her kind.

If anything Radio 4 is far too Muslim. It is highly amusing today in the light of almost universal condemnation of our foolish and meddlesome Archbishop to see the BBC running around trying to find people to stand up for Sharia law in the UK. Would they do so much to support the almost universal condemnation of the BNP? Now if the Radio 4 controller Mark Thingy wants more colourful presenters - why not Nick Griffin and David Irving ???
Posted by Miranda on February 8, 2008 1:21 PM
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Ignorant bilge.
Posted by Michael Tully on February 8, 2008 1:19 PM
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Radio 4 is, generally, unlistenable miserablist left wing femist drivel.

It's middle class in the sense that reading the Guardian and voting Labour are middle class.

It's got nothing to say that I want to hear.

So I don't listen. Although I still have to pay.
Posted by Redcliffe on February 8, 2008 1:14 PM
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I had fears when I saw that Jeff was not heading the cast list this week...but totally unfounded! Sharp, witty and to the point as usual - Jeff should be elected to the role of Chief Executioner of political correctness.

I imagine that his tenure at the Bean Broadcasting Co-operative was cut short because they discovered that he had a brain and a lot of common sense.
Posted by Garth on February 8, 2008 1:14 PM
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Hear, hear - I agree with every syllable of this article.
Posted by Peter Rundle on February 8, 2008 1:07 PM
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J Randall praises BBC Radio 4 as a bastion of the just better versus the dreadful now paraded daily by the BBC and his view is supported by the facts. Nevertheless, he and the many respondents here supporting his contention fail to appreciate that this channel is steadily deteriorating so that one now needs to black up, think in Urdu, speak giggling essex, hold up an banner wishing death to President Bush and the US and face Mecca while shouting abuse at toffs who might also be listening to any array of its programmes outside a narrowing range.
Posted by Big Joak on February 8, 2008 1:00 PM
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Bravo!
Posted by Topper on February 8, 2008 12:53 PM
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Great article! I thoroughly agree in every sense. What is the matter with these stupid politically correct social engineers? One day we'll let them have it their way - remove the white middle-class and with it their hard work, educational aspirations (for which some of us have paid twice), all the money that is squeezed out of them in taxes (several times from the same income) and their decent diction (not posh, just properly pronouced English so that it can be understood) and let's watch the country slowly implode. Happy Now?
Posted by P Ordish on February 8, 2008 12:49 PM
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I look forward to a Radio 4 programme which is in any way critical of the EU and its institutions. It's certainly no good looking back for one: there haven't been any.
Posted by Bob Doney on February 8, 2008 12:41 PM
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Vernon 10:17

Well , if you really want to be pedantic your "don't" should read "doesn't", but , otherwise , I agree.
Posted by andrew cramb on February 8, 2008 12:41 PM
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To be perfectly honest, I have disagreed with the vast majority of Jeff's columns, finding them the upmarket equivalent of Richard Littlejohn, and the responses to them have only confirmed that view. However, this time you are spot on. What the hell is wrong with Radio 4 being middle class? There are plenty of non-middle class media outlets out there - in fact the vast majority are - so if you really want plurality of choice, that should include middle-class people. It's not like you have to show evidence of a degree, joint household income or a prediliction for sun-dried tomatoes and ciabatta before you're allowed to listen. And, hey, people in the North can be middle class too, you know.
Posted by UpNorth on February 8, 2008 12:38 PM
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Excellent article! But what was it that prompted this criticism of midle classes? Jealousy? Not 'belonging'?
Whilst you are at it Jeff.........what's 'working classes'?
Posted by Geoff on February 8, 2008 12:30 PM
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As a US citizen I guess I've got no dog in this hunt, but I've listened to the BBC online services (Channels 4 and 7) ever since I discovered them. They are wonderful, full of wit and intelligence. "The News Quiz", "In our Time", I could go on and on. I consider them to be the gold standard of radio broadcasting and wish we could have our own version of this in the US. Our NPR makes a good try but there is no equalling the BBC. Y'all be careful 'cause you dont know what you got till it's gone.
Posted by Jack Kuespert on February 8, 2008 12:29 PM
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I entirely agree with this article. Great stuff.
Posted by SFC on February 8, 2008 12:26 PM
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I think the BBC are determined to wrench our Radio4 from us. Has anyone noted the rise in patronising programmes whose purpose is to introduce the R4 audience to Hiphop and other juvenalia ? Do they not realise that we are R4 listeners precisely to not have to listen to such banality ?
Posted by Simon Ellis on February 8, 2008 12:20 PM
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I think the BBC are determined to wrench our Radio4 from us. Has anyone noted the rise in patronising programmes whose purpose is to introduce the R4 audience to Hiphop and other juvenalia ? Do they not realise that we are R4 listeners precisely to not have to listen to such banality ?
Posted by Simon Ellis on February 8, 2008 12:20 PM
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An excellent article Jeff. Now how do we get the BBC to debate your article so that some good may come of it, or is it that the BBC only wants to hear itself?
Posted by Philip Congdon on February 8, 2008 12:09 PM
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A wonderful article representative of the views of many, I'm sure. Put Jeff in charge of the BBC!
Posted by Matt Wookey on February 8, 2008 12:00 PM
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Jeff is right. Ms Garvey should leave Radio 4 to the grown-ups and revert to Radio 5 - the station for lads who like sport (which I do too) and drone-ins.
Posted by Alan Powell on February 8, 2008 12:00 PM
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I have listened to the Home Service and Radio 4 for donkeys' years - except for The Archers (No character can speak unless through a mouthful of food) and the plays.
The plays used to be very good, but the BBC seems to think that people *want* bad language brought into their living rooms. One Saturday a few years ago the afternoon play was The Cruel Sea. It was liberally interspersed with "lifelike" (the BBC's word, not mine) foul language; none of which was written by Monserrat!
I switched off in disgust, and have never listened to a BBC radio play since.
I've been an airman, a soldier, a seaman, and a policeman; I've heard plenty of foul language in my time, but I don't want it in my home!
Posted by C J Allen on February 8, 2008 11:57 AM
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Oh, Mr Holland (11.00 a.m.), whatever you think of 'The Archers', please don't call the theme music 'idiotic', whatever its perceived associations. It is called 'Barwick Green' and is the third and last movement of a suite called 'My Native Heath' by the composer Arthur Wood, and it's rather good! A prime example of familiarity breeding contempt, unfortunately.
Posted by Garry Humphreys on February 8, 2008 11:46 AM
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It will take a revolution to put it right.
First though we have to deal with Parliament,the civil service and the education mafia.
All the above together with the BBC are hooked on the state and will be like drug addicts having a cold turkey.
Lets's hope that there are enough of us outside the public sector to save the day. The way Brown has been expanding the public sector will mean it will be a close run thing.
Posted by Stephen Green on February 8, 2008 11:44 AM
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Hazel Blears may regard 'Old Etonian' as an insult, but has she forgotten that her previous boss was educated at a Scotish public school?
Posted by Graham Nicholson on February 8, 2008 11:38 AM
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Radio 4 or as it is called in this house "Woman's 24 hours".
Insufferable, not because it is middle class, but because more than any other of the orifices of the BBC monster it brings forth a dreary, predictable and endless vomit of socialist propaganda. It's time to put an end to the whole corporation.

Posted by Steve on February 8, 2008 11:31 AM
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We need a middle-class revolt.



Posted by Roland on February 8, 2008 11:26 AM
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I have interviewed (always poor) people who have been sentenced and been to jail for non-payment of a licence fee, to pay for sneering politically correct broadcasters.

When someone breaks down in tears in front of you because she has been threatened with the loss of her children, by do gooding social workers, because she had to go to jail,the reality of what patronising politically correct broadcasting actually costs instantly becomes clear.
Posted by Danny on February 8, 2008 11:18 AM
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Excellent article. But of course anyone ever criticising the BBC's policies on 'positive action' is accused of racism by the PC islamophiliac ethnic-obsessed high priests of the church of political correctness that run our country.

Particularly disgusting for me, as a writer, is the number of dramas the BBC puts on TV and radio JUST BECAUSE they are written by black/asian people or are about multicultural themes (every drama proposal now has boxes that must be ticked detailing how a drama will promote diversity and how many ethnics are working on it. Really!). Many of these dramas are dreadful - and they are clogging up the airwaves and stopping really good stuff from being produced. And I won't even get started about the number of black/asian people employed by the BBC who owe their careers to theri skin pigmentation.

I am being racially discriminated against in my own country for being white. Perhaps I should black up to help my career eh?
Posted by Edwin Webb on February 8, 2008 11:12 AM
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Please can some journalist ask Jane Garvey to precisely define what SHE meant as Middle Class? And what 'class' soes she think she belongs to? It seems that everyone has their own interpretation of it.

Posted by S.Petersen on February 8, 2008 11:12 AM
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I whole heartedly concur
Posted by Ivan Hall on February 8, 2008 11:07 AM
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Randall is a careless buffoon,
Is doesn't take a middle-class background to spot
that.
Posted by Kingkerouac on February 8, 2008 10:43 AM

Oh dear oh dear, how awfully pompous and uneducated of you to say that !


Posted by Barb Spears on February 8, 2008 11:06 AM
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This article leaves nothing unsaid in respect of Jane Garvey's stupid statement. I have quibbles however; I think the channel is biassed in favour of women. Men are living longer in retirement, some men are unemployed. If they are like me they must be sick of programmes about childbirth and illnesses. I also have a phobia about The Archers and I gibber with rage when, having a spare moment, I switch on the radio to hear the inevitable,idiotic theme music: the programme should be banished to Radio 2. Finally there is the omnipresent political bias and the well-intentioned PC. I hate it when programme makers presume that their little manoeuvres go unmasked.
Posted by John Holland on February 8, 2008 11:00 AM
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Mr Randall
Thank you for a brilliant piece, just what we all think and feel.

Posted by Peter Moore on February 8, 2008 10:59 AM
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Very well written and expressed by Jeff Randell. We must stand up for our great traditions and radio four is the best radio program catering for them. Brilliantly presented and a joy to wake up to. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE ONE BIT OF IT. Haslemere, Surrey resident, probably 'middle class' Telegraph reader!
Posted by Barry w. freake on February 8, 2008 10:55 AM
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R4 is not too posh. It's just that everything else has been dumbed down for simpletons.
Posted by J i m s t e r on February 8, 2008 10:53 AM
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Jeff, beautifully put! My favourite point was that as middle class RP accented people have become such a minority why are they not protected in the same way as other minorities? The sad truth is all down to human nature - bullying and resentment of someone who is seen to "have more" than any other is seen as fair game. It is fine to praise and worship super-rich chavs like the Beckhams, and indeed the whole football world, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if we found a well spoken public school boy playing for Chelsea there would be cries from the masses "he has enough money already, don't pay him". This is as old as time but many of the BBC board espouse class resentment and it has seeped into their news reporting, in particular.

Garvey has already offended a pile of Woman's Hour listeners with her smugness and perceived anti-feminism - so she has a lot of confused positions which she needs to sort out. The BBC alow Woman's Hour to languish within the WI-style dictates of Jenny Murray and the whole programme needs to move on a little - but that aside.
Posted by A Cartwright on February 8, 2008 10:49 AM
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Randall is a careless buffoon,
Is doesn't take a middle-class background to spot
that.
Posted by Kingkerouac on February 8, 2008 10:43 AM
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Jane Garvey should return to Radio Five and join the other degree- waving presenters, [degrees in what? I ask myself], who are the product of a dumbed-down education system.
Posted by Geoff on February 8, 2008 10:41 AM
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I do agree with you when you suggest the BBC seem to roll out fat too many people of ethnic origin. Although good at their respective jobs, it sadly does not reflect a true reflection on the ethnicity of our population. I don't regard my self as middle class but i would much rather listen to Radio 4, except what i regard as "middle class clap trap" the Archers. I love the plays they get the imagination juices going.
I do prefer Ken Bruce to Wogan, who as much as he is loved, lets face it lost the magic touch when Pauly Wally died. I will sometimes listen to Vine but he seems to have a bent towards labour party issues.
The awful modern music and showy banal contents of the Steve Wright "show" and his "fence sitting" neogreen oppos reduce it to background stuff, factoid.
And there's Ginger is too full of himself to let the program show through.
So it's back to Radio 4, i do think the Today program is also very pro labour party, it might just be some of the Freudian slips they seem to make now and again.
One question, if as it seems that so many people find Jonathan Ross totally nauseating why is he still on the TV and the radio and why is he paid more than it costs to run a small county council ?
Maybe i am Middle class after all, (or just getting old). I'm off to catch the shipping forecast !
Stuff a few extra Doughnuts down yer Jeff and you'll get my vote to be the "Fat-controller". Top man.


Posted by Cross Listener on February 8, 2008 10:35 AM
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Oh Gosh, Quietzapple is writing in Estuary again.
Can someone translate into English.
Posted by Minnie on February 8, 2008 10:34 AM
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Radio 4 is the only channel which justifies BBC fees. It reflect a certainty about and an image of Britain, which majority of us hold dear and are part of. I had the honour of listening to Radio 5 live once (6 years ago and in a friend's car). I have never heard such drivel in my entire life, having lived in five other countries.
Posted by Prabhat on February 8, 2008 10:32 AM
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Jeff,

To my mind a fantastic article. Two counts in particular resonated.

Firstly the straightforward quality of Radio 4 sets it apart from almost every other broadcast media today, it's not to do with class (whatever, as you point out, that is) just quality. You can measure it how you like, depth of investigation, the articulation (nothing to do with accent) of its participants, depth of questioning (there's a reason Blair rarely dared venture near Humphreys...and, unlike some, Humphreys does not need to be rude), the breadth of its coverage, the quality of its comedy.....and so it goes on... To me it is without doubt the jewel of the broadcastable spectrum.

Secondly, your observations around the sneering that is centred on the middle class which seems to be not only allowed but encouraged in certain sections of the media, despite the fact that it is this, now substantial, group of people that looks after its children, pays its bills, and does the medium-to-high value work that allows it to pay the taxes that enable the very sneerers to continue.

The former is the only reason the BBC needs to continue with radio 4 in its current form

The latter reminds me that as a group the middle classes though put upon also have much to trumpet, but, being who they are, they wouldn't want to do that now, would they.
Posted by Paul on February 8, 2008 10:20 AM
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Thanks Mr Randall. As ever, rapier sharp and incisive commentary. May I correct a couple of points. I was unaware that the BBC has a "black music" station. They have an "urban" music station hosted by semi-literate fools who play music favoured by inner-city types with absolutely no musical integrity whatsoever. Rap, garage and so called R 'n' B (no Ben E King mind!) feature on this channel. The term Black music by definition should include Jazz, Reggae, Soul, Blues, Latin and Gospel, none of which is heard on this so called station. Finally, the BBC routinely humiliates and insults West Indians and Africans. They assume, as a majority are christians, they are by definition anti-homosexual and so feel at liberty to attack anything they represent in that sneering supercilious BBC manner. They are scared of Muslims and so patronises them and would never dare challenge the tenets of their faith. Keep up the good work.
Posted by Don on February 8, 2008 10:20 AM
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"Mangled English, poor grammar and confused syntax are not tolerated."

Hah. If you listen to the Today programme ("men shouting at each other") you'll realise that the BBC don't have anybody who can pronounce "covert" or "kilometre" or a vast number of other words correctly.
Posted by vernon harrison on February 8, 2008 10:17 AM
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Great article. Thank you Mr. Randall.

Posted by Dave on February 8, 2008 10:16 AM
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Jeff,

To my mind a fantastic article. Two counts in particular resonated.

Firstly the straightforward quality of Radio 4 sets it apart from almost every other broadcast media today, it's not to do with class (whatever, as you point out, that is) just quality. You can measure it how you like, depth of investigation, the articulation (nothing to do with accent) of its participants, depth of questioning (there's a reason Blair rarely dared venture near Humphreys...and, unlike some, Humphreys does not need to be rude), the breadth of its coverage, the quality of its comedy.....and so it goes on... To me it is without doubt the jewel of the broadcastable spectrum.

Secondly, your observations around the sneering that is centred on the middle class which seems to be not only allowed but encouraged in certain sections of the media, despite the fact that it is this, now substantial, group of people that looks after its children, pays its bills, and does the medium-to-high value work that allows it to pay the taxes that enable the very sneerers to continue.

The former is the only reason the BBC needs to continue with radio 4 in its current form

The latter reminds me that as a group the middle classes though put upon also have much to trumpet, but, being who they are, they wouldn't want to do that now, would they.
Posted by Paul on February 8, 2008 10:15 AM
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Thanks Jeff for putting up a sterling defence of all that is or was, good about one of the best radio stations in the world. But I'm afraid that succinct columns in the DT will not be enough to arrest the inevitable slide of Radio 4 down the slippery slope into the primordial slime.
The lunatics at the BBC are well on their way with their final putsch to take over the asylum and the last redoubt is Radio 4.
Seems crazy does'nt it that the middle classes have probably contributed more to the preservation of the BBC than any other section of the British public and yet they are constantly under siege from the twots inside the organization?
Well the twots at the BBC do NOT have a job for life and the time is fast approaching when the taxpayer will tire of their antics and the whole lot will be denationalized. It will be payback time for biting the hand that feeds them.
If I were to save anything for the Nation it would be Radio 4 and the World Service but without the likes of Ms Garvey.
Let's hope that Ms Garvey and her ilk get the message before then.
Posted by Beebliophile on February 8, 2008 10:09 AM
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Heavens above!

Is Randall another Bullingdon boy?

"law-abiding, tax-paying people, who care more about
their children's schooling than a holiday in Florida, prefer
home-cooked meals to junk-food takeaways, still read
books and would rather listen to commentary in the
Queen's English than gutter patois" = middle class?

I think radio 4 needs some overhaul, but doubt it will
change from being cosy, because that is how it is loved.

But time does move on; Jack de Manio and getting the time
moved on, and Redhead got the time wrong less often, so
that, while Humphreys and gang get lots else wrong, the
time is almost 95% right now.

An appropriate response to a muddled article, paid by the
word in Randall's case I guess.



Posted by Quietzapple on February 8, 2008 10:09 AM
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"...more work like Moral Maize" - Eliot Williams

Presumably that would need to be a new Radio 4 cereal?
Posted by Phil on February 8, 2008 10:07 AM
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Jeff Randall asks some good questions about how we actually identify 'middle-class' - and then ruins it by stigmatising non-RP accents as 'gutter patois'. Much more interesting and complex (but unconsidered here) is Garvey's middle-class, privately-educated background. Who is she to pronounce on working-class culture, whatever that may be?
Posted by Jean Hill on February 8, 2008 10:06 AM
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Garvey is biting the hand that feeds her - she is entirely welcome to work for another network with a less disgustingly middle class audience. If that doesn't appeal, then maybe she should accept that the British middle class have their virtues.
Posted by HMJ on February 8, 2008 10:04 AM
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What Ms Garvey means is "upper middle class" - in the parlance of a class structure supposedly dead in Britain.

Radio 4, as announced in received pronunciation, is hidebound by being locked in a Reithian time warp.

It does sound as though it is run by a million Celia Johnson's in her clipped "Brief Encounter" narrative voice.

The irony is not lost when one considers the not entirely successful south London twang Johnson affected in "This Happy Breed", also for Coward, a year earlier.

On the other hand Radio 4 - to quote another imaginary actress (Lola Lamont) with quite a twang - "a shimmering, glowing star in the ... firmament"

Would we want Radio 4 to change? Could it change and still be a success?

Flick on to BBC television and you'd be forgiven for believing that their world of PC ethnic minority children's presenters reflected Britain today along with skewed ethnic views expressed in 'serious' yoof offerings like Newsround. This is propaganda.

It seems that at the BBC 'mainstream whites need not apply' - and I am not referring to the Corporation's 'Asian Network'. Bankrupt Multiculturalism is more alive and well at the BBC than any idea of class.


Posted by simon coulter on February 8, 2008 10:03 AM
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to paraphrase h l menkin 'no one lost audience share by underestimating listener tastes'
Posted by davidc on February 8, 2008 10:01 AM
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Well said PURNELL Feb6 06.57. I agree with everything you wrote. The Brussels Broadcasting service is a disgace, even more so because I am compelled to pay for it. R4 will talk endlessly about the NHS.american news and elections.It will not talk about the EU treaty or explain the implications for the country it purports to represent.The silence on the denied referendum is deafening. Did the Archers ever discuss foxhunting when it was the burning issue? I think not. When are we going to get an afternoon play about a Britsh father discussing with his family how to kill his daughter before she brings 'shame' to the family? The 'nice' plays put on with 'civilised' characters just sound derisory in todays MuLticultural paradise.

Posted by adams on February 8, 2008 9:55 AM
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Jeff Randall - One of a handful of people in the media who still has some connection with reality.

I'm surprised the PC, corporate owned media still allow him ridicule the insidious destruction of the UK

Wake up people because this assault on our culture and national identity is going to continue....and get worse.

The rage and anger is palpable but as usual, all hot air and no action.

Seeing as there is no realistic political opposition, other more drastic action might be required. It really is something that must be considered.
Posted by Thomas Jefferson on February 8, 2008 9:51 AM
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Hmmm...£4,000 per household to guarantee Northern Rock...that is the average...I wonder how much will actually fall on the put-upon middle classes, substantally more per household I would have thought...
Posted by Will on February 8, 2008 9:49 AM
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Well said, Jeff.

There is a thread on the BBC Radio Points of View Board about this subject which I (and many others) have contributed to.

Overall consensus is that Ms Garvey is being well, rather silly.
Posted by Madeleine on February 8, 2008 9:48 AM
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BBC Radio 4 is the best justification for the license fee. Programs like "In Our Time" and "Beyond Belief" are the most interesting things I've ever heard on the Radio. Better than anything on TV. And since you can't read a book while driving, Radio 4 is essential!
Posted by James E. Cann on February 8, 2008 9:46 AM
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The postings from Australia are as ausual churlish and rude.
Why do you read our newspapers and listen to our radio.
We don't bother with yours.

Posted by Angus McDonald on February 8, 2008 9:46 AM
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Spot on Jeff. But Garvey's comments are of a piece with what's expected of her at the BBC. Racism against the white middle class is best delivered by the white middle class themselves -it gives them that warm glow of chest-beating righteousness!
Here's something Mark Steyn wrore recently that might ring true to those posting here:
"We've grown used to the biases of popular culture. If a British officer meets a native — African, Indian, whatever — in any movie, play or novel of the last 30 years, the Englishman will be a sneering supercilious sadist and the native will be a dignified man of peace in perfect harmony with his environment in whose tribal language there is not even a word for 'war' or 'killing' or 'weapons of mass destruction'."
You can cravenly submit - indeed profit by it - Garvey-style.
Or you can fight it.

Posted by P Williams on February 8, 2008 9:45 AM
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It is important that Radio Four is defended. It is still a civilising force. In Our Time with Melvyn Bragg is, I believe an example of the riches it offers us. Why on Earth do people like Jane Garvey want to erode this station, when the BBC has contrived so many low grade alternatives recently. She is biting the hand that feeds her- she should perhaps go and work for a staion that would not offend her.

And anyway, what the hell is wrong with being middle class? Come on Jane lets have an answer! Follow it through, what would you have middle class people be instead and why?

It is clear that all this is nonsense. The BBC is increasingly concerned with social engineering rather than programming excellence.

The BBC has always been respected throughout the world for what we see embodied in R4 & R3, not I think for Jonathan Ross, BBC 3 and Eastenders. We need more quality on R4 not less. More work like The Essay, Beyond Belief, Moral Maize.

I call for a rebellion against the 'crap is good modern culture.' Go and discover Bach, try some Carravagio or Rembrandt, understand Magns Carta rather than being bothered about Posh Spice's new handbag, take a chance and use your Kerry Katona 'autobiography' as toilet roll- try Tolstoy's Confessions instead. Why not? life is short so reach for something better.
Posted by Eliot Williams on February 8, 2008 9:43 AM
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Jeff for Prime Minister.
Posted by andrew cramb on February 8, 2008 9:37 AM
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What a great article by Jeff Randall.The B.B.C. and virtually all politicians will not say anything that may risk upsetting a minority view, however traditionally right and sensible, However they do not seem to mind upsetting the vast majority of people who work,pay taxes and all those other things mentioned in Jeff's article. This must be because these people (copers) actually are tolerant whereas so many of the minority groups are not tolerant.

Take education for example. Over the past twenty years or so there have been so many 'new inititiatives' that the main reason for schooling,to teach children, seems to have been forgotten.
But when did you ever hear a politician blame parents for exercising little discipline, not ensuring homework is done before playing electronic games, etc. etc.

Politicians will not risk upsetting anyone anymore.

No wonder they now have little respect in the country. They seem to stand for anything and everything however right or wrong.
Posted by M. Davies on February 8, 2008 9:36 AM
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I have lived in Japan for over 30 years , and 3 years
ago was able to listen to radio 4 via the internet .
What joy , my life is now enriched , I listen
morning and evening , and panic if my computer
has a tantrum .
I'm also grateful for archives ,thank you , radio 4 .
Posted by wendy Miyaji on February 8, 2008 9:35 AM
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Radio4 is like mogadon for the so-called civilized masses. It bears sweet f.a reality to Britain today, multicultural/monocultural, higbrow/lowbrow, whatever.

Gerry Smith at 2:54am has it right: "Tedium - paid for by a supine population, on threat of imprisonment." His 'tedium' is my 'mogadon'.

The Brits - English probably more accurately, as the Scots are all at the BBC rather than listening - seem unusually fond of listening to radio and watching TV compared to most other peoples. Don't they ever converse face to face? Look the figures up if you don't believe me. The average Brit watches way more TV in a week than continental Europeans. Likewise radio. Did you know that the hyped up DAB(Digital Audio Broadcasting) is a dead duck? Why? Hardly anyone in Europe bought the new, expensive sets, except, you've guessed it, the Brits. It's already being withdrawn in France and Germany, as people there kept there old receivers or now listen to specialist radio stations via the Internet.

Which brings us to why Radio4, BBC1, you name it, is dead for anyone with an inquiring mind fed up to the back teeth of being propagandized and plain lied too at their own £150 yearly expense. THE INTERNET.

Hence the recent mighty efforts to demonize the Net with 'suicide pacts', 'paedophile grooming', 'terror cells', etc., where the real truth is the Net is killing the conventional mainstream broadcasters like the BBC and they need to fight back.

The BBC were already a busted flush once they caved in over the 'dodgy dossier' and the pretext of WMD for the Iraq War.
Posted by pj kelly on February 8, 2008 9:32 AM
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Don't knock R4. I like it.
Posted by swatantra on February 8, 2008 9:31 AM
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R4 has become too unbalanced to be trusted, current affairs especially so; even the Archers suffers horribly from clumsy, lefty PC bias. Business news is trivial and obsessed with the retail sector and economic news and data is presented and commented upon in a manner that suggests presenters and listeners alike are idiots.
Posted by James Dene on February 8, 2008 9:29 AM
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Aren't the majority of people in this country still white, middle-class and middle-aged anyway? As a former working-class lad who is now in that category, thanks to a grammar school education, I love Radio 4 for the sheer variety, stimulus and enjoyment it gives me every day. If Jane Garvey doesn't like it she should go back to Five Live without delay! Most people who criticize Radio 4 have probably never listened to it properly - if they did, they might actually change their minds. All power to your elbow, Jeff. You're a treasure!
Posted by Garry Humphreys on February 8, 2008 9:28 AM
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Well done Jeff its about time this was said.
By the way Ive suspected that the powers that be at the Beeb have instructed Presenters ,who previously spoke well to adopt the so called Street accent ie no more Ts or Hs-as also adopted. ,sometimes laughably, by Milliband;Hilary Benn etc, Does anyone else find this pathetic?
Posted by bob on February 8, 2008 9:26 AM
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As a working class boy who grew up, partly anyway, on a squatters camp (former POW camp) I ain't posh !
But the values of Radio 4 is something I have always appreciated. Wy has the BBC become ashamed of being British middle class. Why do 'posh' class graduates try to talk like what we used to do ?
What are they afraid of ?
One of my children is a Bsc and Msc and the other one will soon be a Bsc and will taking a Master's.
This is a crisis of class confidence and it seems the get on portion of the old working class will be filling a vacant slot.
Posted by Dave Morris on February 8, 2008 9:23 AM
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Jane Garvey understates her case. R4's listnership is not just massively but wholly and exclusively middle-class. This seems inevitable because the definition of middle class is "people who listen to R4".
Posted by Colin Gibbons on February 8, 2008 9:23 AM
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Well said. What on earth have we got to apologising for living in our own country? Question Time last night revealed the change inattitudes currently underway as Chris Grayling received applause for simply stating that there should be one law in this country whether oyu are Muslim or Christian or any other religion.

The loony left have had their day, thank the Lord. the last diversity officer may not yet have been hired but the headlong dash for the 'Respect Agenda' looks like it's hitting the skids.

Let every self respecting member of middle England reclaim their language, country, home cooked food and accent! The rirght to retain a larger proportion fo their hard earned readies will come next.
Posted by Robin on February 8, 2008 9:19 AM
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What a strange and tribalised mind-set Jane Garvey's remark reveals. But what is more revealing and worrying, is the fact that she must have thought she operated in a context which would approve it. Quite a few moles have emerged to reveal the class war attidudes prevalent in BBC circles.
Posted by MikeMSN on February 8, 2008 9:14 AM
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The worry of it is that the new Labour tendency that currently infests the BBC will read these posts, that are so overwhelmingly in favour of Jeff Randall's words here and take that as a good enough reason to start deconstructing it as a matter of priority.
Posted by figurewizard on February 8, 2008 9:14 AM
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Is it a sign of "progress" or is it just sad that, after 30 years in the States, I return home only to find myself missing a good east or west coast accent.
My apologies to Mr Randall but the accent that the Americans love for its tone and clarity has disappeared, replaced by the guttural, vulgar and unintelligible estuary accent.
Posted by Minnie Ovens on February 8, 2008 9:13 AM
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the silly woman's comments are not surprising, after all they fit in well with the BBC's far left agenda. Radio 4 is a haven for the extreme left (and always has been) but in the past at least it has tried to maintain proper speech. That is no longer the case and all possible English words are (deliberately?) mispronounced and announcers selected for their incorrect accents and speech.
Posted by David on February 8, 2008 9:11 AM
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How right Jeff Randall is about the appalling reverse snobbery that has been created by the politically correct. If it's OK to sneer at David Cameron and preface his name with old Etonian and toff, why don't they add the preface ex communist agitator when referring to Jack Straw and other members of the labour benches. But politically correct or not, Radio 4 is the one saving grace of the BBC.
Posted by Simon Marshland on February 8, 2008 9:09 AM
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Jeff Randall is one of the Telegraph's best writers.
R4 is the best UK radio station - try listening to it
one the internet when abroad - is a heartwarming
reminder of Blighty!
Posted by James on February 8, 2008 9:09 AM
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The anonymous announcer got it right - "merit" should be the only criterion. If the BBC holds diversity more dear than accuracy, brevity and conciseness, then no mission statement on earth will save it. And while you're at it, Mr Randall, could you put in a word for the World Service, which used to broadcast excellent examples of these islands' culture and which is now either the radio version of CNN or a desperate attempt to get listeners in remote places to use their mobiles (at extortionate rates) to particiapte in "rent a rant."
Posted by Lowell Courtney on February 8, 2008 9:08 AM
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Arise Sir Jeff - well said!!
Posted by John Clarke on February 8, 2008 9:08 AM
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Having spent the best part of the 2000's living
abroad, I am concur with the recent immigrant to
New Zealand who said that the only thing he
misses is Radio 4. I would expand that further to
Radio 1-4. Having spent time all over Europe
and the US and South America, I would think it a
reasonably safe bet to say that there is precious
little of this standard of broadcasting in the
world.

Whilst my own tastes tend to mean I steer myself
away from Radio 1, it was apparent to me that
most other commercial equivalents in the rest of
the world (and in the UK) mainly play adverts,
have incredibly limited play lists and would have
no place for such people as the late John Peel.
The same can be said of Radio 2.

I have not come across anything of a similar
standard to Radio 3 and 4 elsewhere. Like
everything and everyone, one can find faults but
when you compare them to the competition, they
are so far ahead of the field it is almost
embarrassing.

If being upholding excellent standards and being
a world-leader means being middle class, then I
suppose I have no problem with that. Do we
really want to infect everything with the poor
standards and low production values that seem
to dominate so much of the rest of the media as
to make it unwatchable or unlistenable to?

Apologies for the rant but I really don't think
people understand just how good BBC radio is.
Posted by dan on February 8, 2008 9:08 AM
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I agree with others on here about bias. I listen to Radio 4 on the long wave when in France and was amazed last year at the overt left-wing slant. At the time of the accession of the Blessed Gordon, the daily service was even asking us to pray for him!

As for Hazel Blears turning her nose up at 'Public School and Oxford educated David Cameron' she needs to look no further than her own bunch of class warriors. Without too much scratching around, you can find that the likes of Ed Balls, Ruth Kelly, Alastair Darling, Patricia Hewitt (to name but a few) were all privately educated and many also went to Oxbridge Universities.
Posted by mnairb on February 8, 2008 9:07 AM
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The middle classes are the back bone of Britain.

Some Radio 4 programmes are so much more intelligent and stimulating than anything broadcast on TV today. Although I do find (the patronisingly titled) Women's Hour rather trivial.

As to speaking clearly, I find so many films and programmes have actors (often Americans) with such poor diction I need subtitles to understand them.
Posted by A. Poet on February 8, 2008 8:56 AM
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If the BBC was serious about its commitment to diversity, it would ensure that Radio 4 remained as it is. Its endangered audience has a right to exist at least as much as any ethnic minority or special interest group.
Posted by Phil Cowburn on February 8, 2008 8:51 AM
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What's so bad about being "middle class", it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

I am willing to bet that Ms Garvey is herself a product of a fairly comfortable unbringing.

Most of us grow out of our self-loathing , teenage rebellion, years.

Not those employed at the BBC, it appears.

The Shepherd's Bush Liberation Front is still actively dreaming of a workers utopia.

Simple answer, get Jonathan Ross on Radio 4.

Posted by AndrewG on February 8, 2008 8:48 AM
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If Jane Garvey doesn't agre with the ethos of Radio 4 why did she join? I am sure there are many more presenters who would jump at the chance of presenting Woman's Hour.
Posted by Jennifer Harris on February 8, 2008 8:47 AM
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So Radio 4 has a middle class bent - we love it. Where else in the world can you this quality of output. Like Jeff and many of his associates I made my way in life starting near the bottom. I never realised Radio 4 was middle class. I just found its output - even Woman's Hour (I'm a 50 year old man) - worth listening to.

Good on you Jeff. Keep the flag flying.


Posted by Kent Marketing on February 8, 2008 8:45 AM
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Good stuff Jeff - and highly entertaining that you've
brought out in droves the 'BBC-is-a-socialist-
conspiracy' loons. With them attacking from one
side and 'dumb, dumb, dumber down' Garvey on
the other, Radio 4 has probably got it about right.
Posted by Rockinred on February 8, 2008 8:42 AM
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Are there TWO Jeff Randals?
A sensible one who says:
"if the definition of "middle-class bent" is a focus on issues that affect law-abiding, tax-paying people, who care more about their children's schooling than a holiday in Florida, prefer home-cooked meals to junk-food takeaways, still read books and would rather listen to commentary in the Queen's English than gutter patois, then there's something in what you say."

And a paranoid version who says:
"In a corporation that is obsessed with promoting diversity, inclusivity and accessibility - code words for non-white, non-shires and non-conservative views - Radio 4 is the last redoubt for millions of listeners who select their broadcaster on quality of output, rather than its role in social engineering."
Posted by Farmer Giles on February 8, 2008 8:41 AM
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I used to listen to radio 5 a lot ("radio white van man").....I've given up. There WERE some good things, pre-planned programmes and the like, but by definition it is radio "no time for thinking before speaking"....if they had been there for the sermon on the Mount, or Martin Luther King's greatest oratory it would have been accompanied by and untertone of annoying music with an incessant beat to it, and would have been interrupted half way through for an even more crucial event, viz , a live interview with Alan Curbishley giving his reaction to Becks' new hairstyle. I used to 'phone in to the morning slot to try to inject some measured opinions and refelctiveness, but have given up.
Posted by mr grumpy on February 8, 2008 8:36 AM
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For all its little irritaions BBC 4 is the last of all that was really great about England( Which I note no longer seems to exist). BBC on line is pathetic and seems to be competing ( lord help us ) with Sky. If that is the future then I do not want it.
Posted by John on February 8, 2008 8:28 AM
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Well said. Radio 4 is a beacon of quality broadcasting that doesn't patronise and assumes its listeners are intelligent people.
I get a bit disturbed by the typical Telegraph reader's view tha tthe BBC has some form of 'leftie' or even worse 'liberal' bias--it's just about the most apolitical organisation in hte UK.
Posted by Pete W on February 8, 2008 8:26 AM
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When one considers all the sociological studies which have appeared over the years on the subject of class - the Luton Car workers one springs to mind - then the ignorance of Miss Garvey and the imprecision of her comments is breathtaking. When in 1944 Evan Durbin talked about , from a left-wing perspective, the "embourgeoisement of the working class" he thought it was a good thing, she obviously does not.
Posted by Realist on February 8, 2008 8:25 AM
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I have listened to Radio 4 since I was a small child, and never listen to anything else, apart from the World Service. When tuning in my car radio, I occasionally hear other channels and am generally appalled. There is very little that I can bear to watch on BBC1, or even BBC 2. Why should not I - an intelligent, responsible person, who pays my licence fee - be catered for without being sneered at for being "middle class".
Posted by Cathy on February 8, 2008 8:25 AM
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I lived in England for 4 years. When I returned to Australia in 2005 what I missed most (apart from my two lovely daughters now married to Brits)was Radio 4. It is brilliant, infuriating at times, but always interesting radio. Simplicity and wit - perfect.
Posted by Anthea Hone on February 8, 2008 8:24 AM
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Hear hear, Jeff.I have Radio 4 on most of the day while I'm working. The only aspect of it that grates is certain feeble comedy output (compensated for by some other, great, comedy shows.

Jane Garvey may have made her comments in retaliation for the many critical comments of her on the Woman's Hour website. Some deplore her cold, even agressive, interviewing style, and her lack of real interest or knowledge when she interviews major figures in the arts such as, recently, Dame Eileen Atkins. A numeber of listeners have pledged not to listen to Woman's Hour on "Jane's days" - Monday and Friday. This has nothing to do with "middle-classism".
Posted by susie on February 8, 2008 8:23 AM
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Jeff Randall is my hero....the last vestige of sense and sensibility in this mad world!
Posted by John Tither on February 8, 2008 8:23 AM
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Hear hear, Jeff.I have Radio 4 on most of the day while I'm working. The only aspect of it that grates is certain feeble comedy output (compensated for by some other, great, comedy shows.

Jane Garvey may have made her comments in retaliation for the many critical comments of her on the Woman's Hour website. Some deplore her cold, even agressive, interviewing style, and her lack of real interest or knowledge when she interviews major figures in the arts such as, recently, Dame Eileen Atkins. A numeber of listeners have pledged not to listen to Woman's Hour on "Jane's days" - Monday and Friday. This has nothing to do with "middle-classism".
Posted by susie on February 8, 2008 8:23 AM
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Should Radio 4 give up its aspiration to deliver intelligent debate and speach then we may all finally leave our tragically dumbed down, beautiful, but now very damaged country because it will be lost forever. Well done Blair and Brown. You have overseen a collapse of the best things we had to offer. Do not touch Radio 4.
Posted by John Albert on February 8, 2008 8:21 AM
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There is a massively feminine bent to every episode of Women's Hour. To correct this, every second episode should be presented by Lawrence Dallaglio.
Posted by Munin on February 8, 2008 8:19 AM
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The BBC is so well balanced we don't even get
"Bloke's hour" If we did we could have Jeff giving it
straight, giving it logically, giving it common sense.
I would guess, that like "Top Gear" (not about cars
actually)it would be an absolute must for both
sexes and all "groups" or "communities" Other than
the twittering Taliban from Islington. Jeff you'll
never get on the BBC Board now!
Posted by Tom Taylor-Duxbury on February 8, 2008 8:17 AM
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You're bound to get the job after this Jeff - lots of appearances to follow.
Actually the objection is not to Radio 4's "middle class-ness", if by that you mean well-educated.
The objection is to the stultifying narrow range of liberal opinions.
I aslo think the channel is far too tilted to the interests of middle-aged women. Every subject is approached through the lens of "not enough funding" here are whiners and moaners and why is the government not funding this enough.
Too middle class and not well-educated enough.








Posted by B Wood on February 8, 2008 8:16 AM
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No impartial listener/viewer could possibly conclude that the BBC is anything but institutionally leftist, its in the blood and somehow it just goes with the territory. Notwithstanding all the governance checks and balances that should in theory prevent a pre-existing bias to the left becoming worse, the political influence of 3 successive Labour Administrations have undoubtedly made their mark and emboldened certain elements in the BBC to the point where it is seen as 'cool' to attack anything which is seen as being too middle class or right of centre. It is predictable and has sort of inevitability about it.
Posted by Colin on February 8, 2008 8:13 AM
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Being a road warrior, for years I have listened to Garvey's views on 5LiveDrive.

As an educator, I also understand that people convey much more in their tone than their words, something actually nobody seems to monitor

I thus have a pretty accurate view of her.

She has always demonstrated the BBC's agenda of being pro abortion, the EU, Islam, Palestinians, New Labour, and those who embrace liberal alternative lifestyles

She has consistently spat scorn at Israel, George Bush, and the Tories

The problem is, the same "middle classes" she demonizes are paying the bills for this country's socialist agenda

Most of "us" however started very low down, and got to a position of reasonable affluence by sheer hard work and sacrifice

Yet another victory for those recruited from the pages of the Guardian
Posted by Neil Turner on February 8, 2008 8:03 AM
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I happened to catch Victoria Darbyshire on a
ghastly R5 chat show yesterday. Some bloke
called in to say that fat people should use "good
old fashioned self discipline" eat less and
exercise more. She and the next five speakers
pulled these comments to pieces as not "right
on" enough. She was very sympathetic, however,
to a self-confessed depressed fatsoe who said
that he sometimes managed to do "two or three
days eating healthily and then feeling a bit
better" but then had to take relief in junk or
sweets. Pathetic political correctness -
everyone's a victim and no one should take any
responsibility for their own actions.

Posted by john williams on February 8, 2008 8:00 AM
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"...I'm reminded why half the globe hates the English."

Which half? I've travelled widely and not detected any significant trend. In fact I only hear about it from English Grauniad readers and ex-pat Scots.

Popularity is a slightly different matter and tends to be closely related to spending power.
Posted by Iain on February 8, 2008 7:57 AM
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Are the totally irreverent comedies like The Now Show and the News Quiz too middle class? No. Nor are the other outstanding programmes that every week I download to listen to on my mp3 player; Material World, from Our Own Correspondent...... Excellent stuff Jeff, keep it up and maybe one day we will get back the real, truly diverse and tolerent Britain we had
Posted by Beano on February 8, 2008 7:55 AM
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I agree totally with the article and with the vast majority of responses so far.

When Greg Dyke, in a moment of unbridled racism, described the BBC as 'hideously white', you could see why the BBC has lost its way...
Posted by Andy B on February 8, 2008 7:53 AM
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I sincerely doubt that we will see an apology from the BBC over this latest spat - unless, of course, there are plans afoot for R4 to have a phone-in competition!

As Mr Randall states in his column: "But the middle classes, and especially their white members, are still considered fair game."

Posted by Mark Beecroft-Stretton on February 8, 2008 7:51 AM
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Thank God for Jeff Randall! It's a sign of the relative decline of Radio 4 that they would actually employ another 'luvvie' with all the attendant 'right on' attitudes. if Ms garvey knew what Radio 4's constituency is, and didn't like it, then why join? If she didn't know, then she has no place being there anyway.

Is there a training school for these people, where their ideologies are implanted, and then they are sent out to dumb down everythig for the rest of us?
Posted by David on February 8, 2008 7:46 AM
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Agree with every word Jeff. Can you not put yourself forward for election to PM - you would get my vote. The likes of Hazel Blears just makes me bristle with anger. She knows full well that Tony Blair attended the Scottish equivalent of Eton, Fettes she just never mentioned it, neither did the Tories! I was brought up on a council estate and went to a bog standard comprehensive which I now know let me and many others down by not mentioning or suggesting University. But I feel that I have values that make me middle class, including listening to and enjoying Radio 4 and introducing my teenage boys to the comedy shows at 6.30. I have felt for a long time that I have much more in common with David Cameron than Gordon Brown. Being middle class is not just a financial state - it is having values.


Posted by Sophie on February 8, 2008 7:44 AM
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Please delete all comments in line with Mr Randall's contempt for the opinions of anyone but the 'main players and expert pundits'. All other 'deranged conspiracists' please refrain from posting, the party line has been set please follow blindly.
Posted by Ray Bates on February 8, 2008 7:42 AM
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Jeff, your article is spot-on. I work and will retire abroad and the one programme I tune into is Radio 4. Every observation you madke is correct - I think the country has got so many things wrong these days and it is very sad to see.
Posted by Roger on February 8, 2008 7:40 AM
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Is there a Jeff Randall Appreciation Society? If so I wish to join.


Posted by Tim Osborne on February 8, 2008 7:18 AM
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Rightly or wrongly, and who can judge? R4 represents for me, rolling meadows, sleepy villages with a Vicar, a church, a local pub and all things wonderful and comforting about Britain. Over then many years I’ve been a listener, it has been the bedrock of broadcasting in world of change and instability. Long may it exist in its present form? I love it, warts and all.
Posted by Peter - Lagos on February 8, 2008 7:11 AM
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Good on Yer Jeff Randall. Having emigrated from
Britain to New Zealand last year, the only thing I
miss is Radio 4
Posted by Gerry Carver on February 8, 2008 7:01 AM
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What a pity Radio 4's flagship Today programme got it wrong all those years ago when Jack Demanio lost his job because he wouldn't tow the pro-EU line.

We still have never got a full apology out of the Today program for its now internally admitted pro-EU bias. Belatedly the BBC has shown signs of at least supporting the idea of a referendum. But it's too late, all too late. The middle class have been squeezed most by the EU driven taxation, red tape, and general rise in bureacracy and legislation.

I left Radio 4's squad of regular listeners years ago and occasionally drop in to hear the same pro-EU pro-Left Nu Labour BS. Perhaps a generational change will come in and save it from itself. The new boy Tories, even Lib-Dims these days, are anti-EU and therefore pro-democracacy. Generally the EU is not popular amongst the young and our politics will eventually reflect that as we find ways to claw back power from Brussels - or leave.

Sorry Beeb, despite your sterling war years service and community comedy in TV's hey day - I've been drip fed on BS for too long - I take all your news coverage with a pinch of salt these days and won't go to a BBC website on principle.

The Radio 4's UK theme tune, by Austrian jewish emigre Spiegel, used to make my day in early morning driving. But it's gone, all gone. Soon to be replaced by the ring of barbed wire's Ode to Joy no doubt.

The truth is out there - political blogs mostly - and all just a Google search away without the heavy hand of a BBC editor's political leanings.
Posted by John Purnell on February 8, 2008 6:57 AM
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Spot on Jeff!
But I fear you are too kind to the BBC.
Apart from it's unconcealed liberal/left bias, Radio 4 is the best we've got. Now, it seems, the middle-class traitors from the PC Brigade are intent upon wrecking that too.
I can handle Glaswegian communists, or tub-thumping Welsh socialists, or 'working-class' reds, or wandering Irish poets - but if there is anything as nauseating as an expensively educated, middle-class lefty, I have yet to meet them.
These apparently intelligent people simply do not understand, that they are kicking away the props of the house above them - and they will be the first to be crushed.
Look what happened to Kerensky when he set the socialist ball rolling - Russia got 80 years of communism and now Putin! Q.E.D.
Posted by Graham King on February 8, 2008 6:55 AM
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Living in Australia, my podcast of several Radio 4 programmes is a highlight of my listening week. As an Australian, this sensitivity over the question of class in the UK is always bemusing to me. Not sure if I'm middle class or not, but I listen in because of the quality of what's on offer. It's a banality-free zone. And long may it stay that way.
Posted by Richard from Australia on February 8, 2008 6:53 AM
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Jeff Randall,
Thanks indeed for writing this article! It chimed completely with the way I feel and the negative changes that I see taking place in this country!
Posted by elderfield on February 8, 2008 6:45 AM
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Jeff you are completely right as usual.

I regard myself as Bengali English. I was born in England to immigrant parents. I listen to Radio 4 every day to a variety of programmes and have done so every day since I was 18 when I went off to university. I am now 38.

I abhor the left liberal political correctness of the BBC. But Radio 4 is still the best thing on the air.
Posted by AZAM on February 8, 2008 5:20 AM
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Jeff, she presents the BBC's Women's Hour, for Heaven's sake. By definition is anything she says really relevant, apart from demonstrating yet again how divorced from reality that once proud organisation has become?

Posted by O Zangado on February 8, 2008 4:31 AM
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Jeff Randall is a national treasure.
Posted by RA on February 8, 2008 4:16 AM
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A truly excellent article. I am particularly pleased that Jeff Randall points out that in an ethnically diverse, inclusive society, the white middle class is itself a group that needs to be 'included'. For too long 'middle class' has been a criticism even an insult! Anything described as 'middle class' has been interpreted as right wing, conservative, old fashioned, bigoted and even racist and as such has been targeted for change. As part of this particular political philosophy, Radio 4 comes under periodic attack but mainly from within the BBC itself not the general public.If certain sectors of the British public don't like it, there are hundreds of other radio stations to listen to, so they are not at all cocerned about the existence, format or content of Radio 4. Andrew Marr's comment about the BBC reflecting Britain hits the nail on the head. Sadly, all too often the BBC does not see this as its role but chooses to act as an agent of change and social engineering.
Posted by Rod Wheeler on February 8, 2008 4:14 AM
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I'm white, middle class, speak with Received
Pronunciation and broadcast for the BBC...and
feel like an endangered species! And I'm sick of
the current obsession with getting voices on the
air simply because they're not white or middle
class. Such "positive discrimination" is
patronising in the extreme and leads to a great
deal of mediocrity. Mark Damazer, Controller of
R4: "We should think about using presenters we
have never used before" ....yes, well just make
sure they're chosen on merit and not just
because they sound different...different does not
mean they're any good. Just give us quality!
Posted by Mr A N Nouncer on February 8, 2008 3:45 AM
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I left the UK over 30 years ago, and the only thing I missed in all that time was Radio 4. simply, this is THE best radion station in the world, bar non.
Luckily we can still hear it in Australia now via the internet,and listen again downloads.
The UK does not have a lot going for it at present, but it's TV programmes,and radio 4,are still in a class of their own.
Thank you BBC,
Posted by J Richmond. Oz. on February 8, 2008 3:36 AM
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Ms Garvey and fellow lefties misuse the term "middle class", a neutral, sociological concept.

If they want to sneer, it's more accurate to use the insulting "bourgeois".

Regardless. I binned Radio 4 as unlistenable 20 years ago, when I also ditched its print equivalent, The Grauniad.

Radio 4's middle-aged Home Counties, mainly female, voices drone on and on, endlessly preaching dreary bourgeois values. Punctuated only by a surfeit of Scots.

Whenever I catch Radio 4 by accident I'm reminded why half the globe hates the English.

Tedium - paid for by a supine population, on threat of imprisonment.
Posted by Gerry Smith on February 8, 2008 2:54 AM
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Middle class and proud of it... even toff is a form of middle now, and it's fine here in the deep end. Just keep the education, discovery, adventure, excellence, creativity and life (and some dosh) flowing in my direction.

Posted by Henry Cave Devine on February 8, 2008 2:41 AM
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Please oh please don't let Jane Garvey have any say in what goes on on Radio 4. She is obviously not very well educated. Return her to Radio 5 Live immediately. That's her sort of level!
Posted by Rita Duval on February 8, 2008 2:22 AM
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Jeff Randall: the sort of columnist who's so sensible you want to salute him. Brilliant stuff.
Posted by Arthur Simmonds on February 8, 2008 1:37 AM
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