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rapscallion Odinfist will slay the inside of your skull
Age: 18 Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 248 Location: Armstrong BC Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: What makes drums make different sounds |
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I'm trying to make a good reference on how different drum attributes make different sounds.
things like shell materials and shell construction
I don't know what all to include in this, in terms of what the attributes should be (so far I have: Pitch, Sustain, and Attack) and what the differences in construction should be (so far I have: Shell material, and shell thickness)
plus I really don't know much about how to arrange the whole thing, I've started it in a word document, If we could all collaborate and figure out how to finish this, I think it could be a useful tool, for people like myself to learn all about drums and the different sounds they make.
(with the shell materials one, I'm looking to put them in order, We'll probably end up using only a fraction of the list i have in there)
... ok.... turns out I can't attach the word document... and it doesn't work very well at all to just copy it into the message as there are tables and such... I'll just put this out there for now. |
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elron Death Ninja
Age: 18 Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 539
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I am sure doomy will be happy to put such a document up on emd servers for you. _________________
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Hibernus Mortis Darth Vodka
Age: 32 Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 454 Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a little 101 by moi on different shell types.
Maple = Fatter tone, big and open with nice low end. Great in a live setting.
Birch = Sharper cutting tone with faster attack, a bit more high pitch and perfect for the studio.
Bubinga - Very musical wide open tones...great for live as well as studio. Expensive but worth the money.
Oak - Very loud with nice tone as well but lacking a little bit on the low end.
Ash - Punchy and very focused, similar to Oak but with a wider tuning range.
Mahogany - Punchy and even lower in pitch than Maple, also lacking a bit in the attack department. _________________ "May The Force Be With You!!!" |
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slaughterofdreams Kaziklu
Age: 18 Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 201 Location: houston, texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:33 am Post subject: |
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follow what hibernus mortis said (although i have to disagree about the oak...mine's fat as hell )
but also the glue, different companies use different glues, some glues are greatly heavier than others, you can typically see the glue between the shells (just look for something different than the wood color) the glues really have just as much of an effect on the tone of the drum as the wood does itself. sometimes factories will use more glue which focus's the tone a little bit, but because of that deading quality the drums resonate less, other high end kits use a lite, and very thin glue to hold the shells together to get the full tone of the shell itself. think about it like this - the less there is on a drum, the better the tone is going to be (which is why they have like isolation mounts, floating toms, smaller lugs etc) the more a drum has on it the less it's going to sustain, but also remember it might make it a punchier shell (if the wood is right). so some hardware looks badass, but it might be aversly effeting the drums sound, and the same goes for the finishes, wraps and the glue they use will deaden the sound just a bit, but in some cases (such as my pearl) they can actually sound better as a wrap vs a lacquer finish because of the tonealities of the shells.
also look at the quality of the wood, you dont want a lot of greens or browns, just try to get a very well rounded over all wood color, not all shell plys are the same, so if you have a lot of green wood it's going to be softer, thus a warmer tone, yet it sounds kind of mudded at times.
the bearing edges are the most vital part of any kit. this is what actually touches the head that transfers the vibrations from the head to the shell. the more wood you have touching the head, the faster the vibration will transfer and the more "woody" and warm the tone will overall be. but in some instances , such as metal, where you really need that cut, you'll want a sharper bearing edge on your drum so that you get a bit more attack as the vibrations focus a bit more on the heads...but that also makes head selection very important into the overall sound of your kit.
shell thickness is also important, the thinner the shell the more air is in the drum, and the more the wood will willing vibrate. thus the deeper/warmer the tone, as well as a bit more resonance. the thicker the shell the more bright/higher pitched the drum will sound.
the next thing i can really think of is the size, the deeper the drum the more thuddy it will be, shallower drums will resonate and more sinsitive they'll be because the two heads are closer together, and there's less air between them. if you want a low pitched drum, get a bigger diameter, if you want it to resonate longer get a bit shallower of a shell. but the thing is, is too shallow makes it to be a very thin sound, but also the deeper the drum, you'll get nothing but a thud. the whole reasion vinne paul and those guys use those hugeass toms is to get that distinctive thuddy kick sound. the same shells a bit thinner would have the same tone and attack, just resonate longer.
but really overall, it just depends on what the factory produces, if it sounds good it sounds good...the end. to me, since i've been working in the drumshop though i can pretty much tell a peral is a pearl, a yamaha is a yamaha, a tama is a tama etc. not only by looking at shell construction, but how the drums sound. _________________ www.chaoticgoat.com/goe
www.myspace.com/GatesofEnoch
Eternal hails to the mighty Krullenzith! 1977-the end of aeons. |
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anarchist_tomato Utuk Xul
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 1684 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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there are actually a number of guides already written abou this, you may be re-inventing the wheel. some also have no glue and are one thick shell, they sound awesome _________________ At least I'm not emo.
http://www.myspace.com/soundskp
http://www.myspace.com/djnhoj |
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slaughterofdreams Kaziklu
Age: 18 Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 201 Location: houston, texas
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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anarchist_tomato wrote: | there are actually a number of guides already written abou this, you may be re-inventing the wheel. some also have no glue and are one thick shell, they sound awesome |
hell yeah man, and stave shells sound killer too. i've only played on a stave snare though, i'd love to hear how a kit would sound _________________ www.chaoticgoat.com/goe
www.myspace.com/GatesofEnoch
Eternal hails to the mighty Krullenzith! 1977-the end of aeons. |
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Hibernus Mortis Darth Vodka
Age: 32 Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 454 Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, by the way Spaun's double 45 degree bearing edges kick major ass. _________________ "May The Force Be With You!!!" |
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devildriver_drummer Khaotika
Age: 99 Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 2968 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Hibernus Mortis wrote: | Here is a little 101 by moi on different shell types.
Maple = Fatter tone, big and open with nice low end. Great in a live setting.
Birch = Sharper cutting tone with faster attack, a bit more high pitch and perfect for the studio.
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Heard from elsewhere that maple is better for studio cause it dosen't project as much and birch is better for live because of projection _________________ ...I'll run this body into the ground until it flys...
www.myspace.com/stuco_stewart
www.myspace.com/xxxkhaotikaxxx |
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Hibernus Mortis Darth Vodka
Age: 32 Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 454 Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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devildriver_drummer wrote: | Hibernus Mortis wrote: | Here is a little 101 by moi on different shell types.
Maple = Fatter tone, big and open with nice low end. Great in a live setting.
Birch = Sharper cutting tone with faster attack, a bit more high pitch and perfect for the studio.
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Heard from elsewhere that maple is better for studio cause it dosen't project as much and birch is better for live because of projection |
The thing is maple is a bit too bassy for the studio, it's a lot harder to eq. Birch is more cutting and transfers way nicer in the studio, I'm speaking from personal experience in the studio several times, as well as customers I deal with in my drum department.
To each their own, don't get me wrong though I love Maple just as much. _________________ "May The Force Be With You!!!" |
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devildriver_drummer Khaotika
Age: 99 Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 2968 Location: Australia
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rapscallion Odinfist will slay the inside of your skull
Age: 18 Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 248 Location: Armstrong BC Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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slaughterofdreams wrote: |
the next thing i can really think of is the size, the deeper the drum the more thuddy it will be, shallower drums will resonate and more sinsitive they'll be because the two heads are closer together, and there's less air between them. if you want a low pitched drum, get a bigger diameter, if you want it to resonate longer get a bit shallower of a shell. but the thing is, is too shallow makes it to be a very thin sound, but also the deeper the drum, you'll get nothing but a thud. the whole reasion vinne paul and those guys use those hugeass toms is to get that distinctive thuddy kick sound. the same shells a bit thinner would have the same tone and attack, just resonate longer.
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I've been wondering about the depth of the Kick drums on the new drumset I want to get... I know I'm going 24" dia, but as for depth, for more punchy-thuddy attack, I'd want to go deeper like 20" deep?
combined with that "coins on the batter head" idea which I found on the forums here, I'm trying to go for a really defined sound where I can play warp-speed and you can still distinguish the notes... but without using triggers. plus really low pitched, I've heard bass drums that were higher pitched than the toms. Great definition... but the bass drum should have the lowest pitch out of everything. |
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slaughterofdreams Kaziklu
Age: 18 Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 201 Location: houston, texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: |
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rapscallion wrote: | slaughterofdreams wrote: |
the next thing i can really think of is the size, the deeper the drum the more thuddy it will be, shallower drums will resonate and more sinsitive they'll be because the two heads are closer together, and there's less air between them. if you want a low pitched drum, get a bigger diameter, if you want it to resonate longer get a bit shallower of a shell. but the thing is, is too shallow makes it to be a very thin sound, but also the deeper the drum, you'll get nothing but a thud. the whole reasion vinne paul and those guys use those hugeass toms is to get that distinctive thuddy kick sound. the same shells a bit thinner would have the same tone and attack, just resonate longer.
|
I've been wondering about the depth of the Kick drums on the new drumset I want to get... I know I'm going 24" dia, but as for depth, for more punchy-thuddy attack, I'd want to go deeper like 20" deep?
combined with that "coins on the batter head" idea which I found on the forums here, I'm trying to go for a really defined sound where I can play warp-speed and you can still distinguish the notes... but without using triggers. plus really low pitched, I've heard bass drums that were higher pitched than the toms. Great definition... but the bass drum should have the lowest pitch out of everything. |
kicks that big would be nothing but mud. get a 22" diameter 20" deep. that is the biggest drum i will ever own, period. just trust me on that one man, you'll regret hardcore buying a drum that big for metal. if you're dead set on it though man, go for it, should be fun hah. _________________ www.chaoticgoat.com/goe
www.myspace.com/GatesofEnoch
Eternal hails to the mighty Krullenzith! 1977-the end of aeons. |
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