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Anonymous
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posted on 8/18/2003 at 03:43 PM |
We see a lot of info here and there on the size of the hobby market (RPGs, TCMs, CCGs, wargames, etc) -- are there any good sources for this info?
1.5 million monthly players of D&D; -- how many "occassional" and how many that just buy the core books for the hell of it and never play?
I'd guess that many of the Star Wars RPG products are bought by SW fans who never attempt to role-play?
GW -- they're doing over $100M in sales per year (public financials) -- is that mostly metal and plastic or does paper come into a big % of it?
Are these categories (despite the hype of click-games and collectible cards over the last couple years) in decline? Is the computer and Internet killing these hobbies?
Questions I've had as I look through these and other boards on the business of gaming.
Thanks,
Hudson Adams
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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posted on 8/20/2003 at 03:31 PM |
I know that overall, buisiness is definately up in terms of Magic and D&D.; Sales numbers are reflecting that across the board.
Some CMGs are hot (HeroClix being the primary), some other TCGs are doing well to hot (Yuh-Gi-Oh, SWTCG, L5R and DBZ), but there is a lot of chaff out in the market, too.
Hear about the Spongebob Squarepants game?
How about the Shadowrun CMG?
Yu-Yu Hakesho?
How about games that are now totally dead? You could fill a post just listing all of those (Scooby Doo, Overpower, X-Men, Wheel of Time and Tomb Raider being just a few)
The trick is, figuring out what new games will be worth the money, and what new games will end up on that "dead" list.
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Anonymous
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posted on 8/20/2003 at 09:02 PM |
Wheel of Time (Call of Cthulu) d20 were intended to be one-time products.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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posted on 8/21/2003 at 07:50 AM |
The SR minis game (actually to the clueful it's an action figure game, no MINIS are involved) is a very high quality item that's doing very well despite zero support for it.
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ryand
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posted on 8/21/2003 at 11:38 PM |
quote:
are there any good sources for this info?
You can read the data I released when I ran the tabletop RPG business unit at Wizards of the Coast here
quote:
1.5 million monthly players of D&D; -- how many "occassional" and how many that just buy the core books for the hell of it and never play?
There are probably a lot more players of D&D; than there are people who buy the books. You can play D&D; without the books, but few people will buy them without an intention to use them (at least have that intention when they buy them).
quote:
I'd guess that many of the Star Wars RPG products are bought by SW fans who never attempt to role-play?
I wish some actual data was gathered on this issue. My sense is "not" - that is, my sense is that most people who buy the Star Wars RPG products buy them to use in games. They're just not very well designed as references or collectibles unlike the "coffee table books" that flood the bookstore market with each movie release.
quote:
GW -- they're doing over $100M in sales per year (public financials) -- is that mostly metal and plastic or does paper come into a big % of it?
Metal is probably 90%+ of GW's income stream. Everything else is a drop in the bucket. (PS: GW's 2002-3 financials are now public. They generated 129 million pounds sterling in revenues. Converted to US Dollars, that's $203 million). GW's business is 1/3rd in the US ($67.85 million), 1/3rd in the UK and 1/3rd in the Eurozone.
quote:
Are these categories (despite the hype of click-games and collectible cards over the last couple years) in decline?
No, they are not in decline. 2002 was probably the single largest year in terms of gross revenue worldwide for "tabletop hobby games" like RPGs, miniatures, CCGs, etc. They are not in decline in the US either - with Yu-Gi-Oh and Clix factored in, I suspect 2002 was probably the 2nd best year in terms of revenue in the history of the US tabletop gaming market. (2000 was probably #1 on the success of Pokemon).
In 1993, the year Magic was released, total revenue earned by publishers for all kinds of hobby games in the US was less than $75 million. In 2002, total revenue earned by publishers for all kinds of hobby games in the US probably exceeded $500 million.
quote:
Is the computer and Internet killing these hobbies?
The exact opposite is probably true. There appears to be little microeconomic competition between tabletop and electronic games. However, electronic games are introducing a lot of people to core tabletop brands like D&D; and Magic: The Gathering, and there is probably growth in the tabletop arena from that exposure.
Ryan
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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posted on 8/25/2003 at 05:43 PM |
Thanks Ryan -- that was very helpful.
Hudson Adams
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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posted on 8/26/2003 at 05:32 PM |
quote:
How about games that are now totally dead? You could fill a post just listing all of those (Scooby Doo, Overpower, X-Men, Wheel of Time and Tomb Raider being just a few)
The trick is, figuring out what new games will be worth the money, and what new games will end up on that "dead" list.
As was noted above at least some of these games, maybe even all of them, were intended to be short-term product lines. The real trick is figuring out when to quit.
Notice that all of the games you mentioned (I'm not familiar with Overpower, so I could be wrong on that one) are licensed products. The brand name existed before the game. So factoring in how many extra units that name is going to sell for you (directly or indirectly), you set your print run so that you'll make money. The name might increase sales indirectly by encouraging chain bookstores and toystores to stock it, where they wouldn't even consider a stand-alone RPG. I saw the Wheel of Time RPG in Coles next to the PHB, but that was it for RPGs.
You make money off the first book, but Coles isn't going to carry modules or additional sourcebooks. If you get lucky the community will embrace the game and want more products, but probably not. So you have to decide at what point you are going to start squandering the profits from the sale of the Rulebook and stop making new products before you cross that line.
With some products (Tomb Raider, I would imagine) the only sensible thing to do is publish the rulebook then get out fast.
Cheers
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0over0
New User   Posts: 1 Registered: 8/5/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/28/2003 at 03:39 PM |
Interesting information, Ryan--thanks!
I think we're in something of a rising culture of gaming. And I think in large part it's been brought about by the mainstream acceptance of computer and console games.
The U.S. used to have more of a gaming culture--before things like TV and film took so much of the entertainment dollar (bridge, chess, checkers--the classics). It's nice to see it returning. I think a gaming culture has a lot of value for a nation as a whole (learning to follow rules, taking responsibility, social skills, general and specific knowledge, etc.).
Just some random thoughts.
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mkmcartor
New User Posts: 1 Registered: 8/12/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/2/2003 at 03:43 PM |
quote:
Hear about the Spongebob Squarepants game?
How about the Shadowrun CMG?
Yu-Yu Hakesho?
How about games that are now totally dead? You could fill a post just listing all of those (Scooby Doo, Overpower, X-Men, Wheel of Time and Tomb Raider being just a few)
Uh guys...the rulebooks for these games were very small, as the person who mentioned them was talking about CCG's (or TCG's if you will). These used to be card games, not RPG's (yes, I know there's a WoT RPG too).
Just so we're all on the same page here...
And yes, these are all licensed games (Overpower was a Marvel Universe CCG). What's interesting to see is that after two previous failed attempts at making a Marvel or X-Men CCG, there's a new one being put out by the same guys who did Yu-Gi-Oh (Upperdeck?) that's basically a YGO clone.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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posted on 9/23/2003 at 07:56 PM |
I think that people want to be with other people when they play games. I can't think of a single time when playing a table-top game where people did not talk about other interests and, in some cases, develop friendships.
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