Interview: Monte Cook Date: May 25 2003 by: Michael Burnaugh (Realmprotector)

GamingReport:
First Mr. Cook I'd like to thank you for doing this interview.

Monte Cook:
No problem. Happy to do it. I'm always a little surprised that people care that much about what I have to say.


GamingReport:
I've read that you started gaming around ten years old. What other RPG's besides D&D; did you play, and what about other games?

Monte Cook:
We played Villains and Vigilantes, Gamma World, Aftermath, Lords of Creation, and eventually Rolemaster. As for other games, I couldn't possibly list them all. I come from a game-playing family who loved all kinds of card games, chess, board games like Monopoly, Risk, Payday, and so on. From an extremely early age, about as soon as I could write, I was designing my own board games--the kind where you roll a die and move that many spaces and then follow the instructions on that space. I must have made hundreds, with little squares drawn all around on pieces of paper. Some were quite involved, if I remember correctly.


GamingReport:
Of the games you've played what would you consider to be the best?

Monte Cook:
It's really impossible for me to say which game is the best. How do you compare Villains and Vigilantes against Settlers of Catan? My favorite RPG is D&D; 3rd Edition, I must admit. It's the game that I play--usually more than once a week. I also really, really love Call of Cthulhu, and it was a huge honor for me to work on the d20 conversion of that game.

When my friends are over and we want a party game, we gravitate toward Apples to Apples, Time's Up, or a fairly simple board game like Ra or Tikal.


GamingReport:
Please tell us something of your very first RPG campaigns as a player and a DM.

Monte Cook:
My very first character's name was Thad the Brave. He was a half elf cleric/ranger. I think he had a henchman who was a paladin. Beyond that, I really don't remember anything about him. A bit later on, in a completely different campaign (and a completely different game group) I had a more memorable character named Malhavoc. He was an evil magic user who did a lot of remarkable things, most of which ended up hurting the other PCs. Malhavoc had a lot of style and panache, which is why I named my company after him.

Mostly, though, I was the DM. The very first adventure that I remember running was a big dungeon that had a "cup that ended the world" in it or something like that. Another early adventure that I remember was based off Raiders of the Lost Ark, except that this was well before I'd ever seen the movie and I'd misheard the title. I thought it was Raiders of the Lost Star, which sounded very evocative, and so I made up a "module" called Raiders of the Red Moon and had strange creatures come down from the moon to try to raid villages and take slaves back up to the moon with them. I'm sure it copied a lot of stuff from G1, 2, and 3 and D1, 2, and 3, which were very influential to me at the time.
My first real campaign was, a year or so later, set in a place called Homeworld. Homeworld was a rosette--5 planets artificially placed in equal orbits around a star. These worlds had physical tubes that connected them that allowed easy travel and had a mixture of magic and technology. (No one knew who built Homeworld, yadda yadda--I was very influenced by Larry Niven and Ringworld at the time.) I think my old game group--the one that met all through Junior High and High School--remembers that of all my campaigns the most.

I envy people sometimes who say that they're still running the same campaign after 15 years or whatever. I was never able to keep one campaign going for more than a few sessions--not because of the players, but because of me. With the exception of Homeworld, I'd get bored and want to create something new. As early as Junior High I was tinkering with D&D; (mostly I was adding spell points to the magic system) and eventually creating my own RPGs. I remember that when we read about super hero games in Dragon Magazine, as comic book fans we were excited and pooled our money to order Villains and Vigilantes through the mail right away. However, we couldn't wait. I created my own super hero game that we played until V&V; showed up. That was probably my first complete RPG (I don't remember it much, though). Anyway, with all the great games to run, and all the wonderful ideas for settings and adventures, I could never gather up the patience to run just one campaign. It probably annoyed my group a bit, but they were pretty tolerant and we all had a good time.


GamingReport:
Has gaming changed for you over the years? Is the magic still there for you?

Monte Cook:
Magic? Absolutely. I marvel at people who were really into RPGs and then found that they have no time for it anymore. It's still my passion. It's a wonderful outlet for creativity and I look forward to each and every game session. But gaming has changed for me, no doubt about it. There are work aspects to it now. When I create something new for a game, that might wind up in a product. I play with mostly game designers and editors, and that changes things as well--changes expectations. It's still fun, though.


GamingReport:
In 1994 what made you leave ICE for TSR?

Monte Cook:
A lot of factors, some personal, some professional. First and foremost, however, I wanted to work as a freelancer. I didn't go straight from ICE to TSR. There were about two years where I worked at home, editing freelance for ICE and writing freelance for TSR. I got my first taste of being my own boss and working my own hours, and I really liked it. Even when I decided to go to work full-time for TSR, I knew it would be temporary, and that eventually I'd want to go back to working on my own.

At the time, however, when TSR called and asked me to come work for them, it was the right thing to do. The game industry goes in waves, where for a while there's lots of freelance work, then it dries up, and then there's more. We were entering a "dry" period and so I took the job at TSR.


GamingReport:
What are your thoughts on your years at TSR and the problems that took place with Lorraine Williams at the helm?

Monte Cook:
I really enjoyed those years. Sure, not everything was perfect, but I think tales of how terrible things were supposedly back them really seem to be a case of "history being written by the victor." The people running the business side of things at TSR may have made mistakes, but I can't say that the D&D; business has run perfectly (in my opinion) once Wizards taken over either. WotC paid me better, and handled some things better, but if you asked me where it was more fun to work, I'd have to say TSR.

They both valued sales people and marketers more than their creative staff, which I think is a shame. Not that there aren't value in sales and marketing, but why can't they be equal?

One thing, I guess, I guess, that flavors my view of TSR is that when I took the job, I'd heard horror stories about how it was full of egotistical designers, that the employees were treated poorly, that they had to work on typewriters and crazy stuff like that. Of course, none of it was true. On the other hand, when WotC bought out TSR, we were told that WotC was a utopia where everyone was treated great and it was more fun than work. And that wasn't true, either. So I suppose it's all a matter of managing expectations.


GamingReport:
What do you think about the new Hasbro/WotC and how what do you think about their handling of the D&D; property?

Monte Cook:
Well, I've said publicly (and will say again) that D&D; would be better off in the hands of a company for which it was the first priority. It was great that WotC supported us doing a 3rd Edition of the game and WotC has put out some great D&D; products both before and after the Hasbro buyout, but it's a shame that D&D; designers are second class citizens there because they don't work on the big moneymakers (although with the demise of Pokemon, that's less true now, I'm sure). I can't tell you how many times I would talk to other Wizards' employees while I was there who acted like "oh, and I guess we put out D&D; as well." And some of those people were in charge of the company. It was frustrating. D&D; deserves better.

And then of course there were the layoffs. Now, I left before they really started, but I was still "around" to see a lot of that. I know, every big company goes through it--but that's my point. WotC wouldn't have grown so drastically, so quickly (and so foolishly) if it weren't for its success with Pokemon. Then when Pokemon declined, WotC staffers got the boot. D&D; designers and editors were getting laid off while D&D; sales were at an all-time high because of 3rd Edition. That's ridiculous and would have never happened if D&D; were it's own company (those people working on D&D; laid off that year not only would have kept their jobs but probably would have got big bonuses based on the success of their game). Of course, you can make the argument that if it were it's own company it would never had had such a large staff to begin with. So it's complicated.

I think there are still some real quality people there working on D&D.; I hope they're getting the respect and financial compensation they deserve.


GamingReport:
How do you see D&D; 3.5, as a necessary step for WotC to take like the Star Wars revised core rule book?

Monte Cook:
To be clear, I have no relation to the revised edition. Not so much as a "Monte, we're thinking about doing this to the material you created, what do you think?" I personally think it's too soon to revise the books and have it on good authority it's got more to do with economics than what's best for the game. That said, the creative team for D&D; over the years has a long history of taking the lemons handed them from the business people and making lemonade. I suspect that they've done that here.

I won't really go into detail (in fact, I can't -- I have signed a Non Disclosure Agreement). I can say that some of the changes are good, and some I'd never implement in my home game in a million years.


GamingReport:
Now that you're independent, how does it feel compared to working for ICE and WotC?

Monte Cook:
I can't tell you how wonderful it is to have the creative freedom to write and product what I want without anyone looking over my shoulder, wanting to make changes just for their own gratification, or because of some silly imposed rules of "we don't do that kind of thing."

I still spend the vast majority of my time writing, which is exactly the way I want it. My wife, Sue, handles most of the "running of the company" types of duties, like contracting artists, mappers, dealing with the printer. We also have a fantastic situation, a joint deal with Sword & Sorcery, so they handle a lot of the stuff we don't want to do, like warehousing, sales, things of that nature. So in a way, I'm doing the part of the job that I love (writing game products) without all the bad parts. I couldn't be happier.


GamingReport:
What would you say to someone interested in starting up a gaming company?

Monte Cook:
I'd ask them why they want to do it. If it's just to get their stuff published, I'd recommend that they work with an existing publisher that accepts freelance submissions instead. That sounds like a big contradiction to what I just said, I know, but the thing is, you learn a lot working with people who already know what they're doing. I would not have wanted to start in the industry self-publishing.

If you're still interested in doing your own stuff, I'd say that the one bit of advice is this: People will buy quality. They don't buy gimmicks, and they're smart enough to see through you if you don't know what you're doing or if you've presented your material poorly. Hire an editor. Make sure the game stats are solid and the game plays well. Pay for good art.


GamingReport:
Recently it was announced that Valar productions was going to release an erotic fantasy RPG, What do you think about this addition to the world of gaming?

Monte Cook:
Eh. Whatever. I've no personal interest in it.


GamingReport:
Malhavoc has seen great success and has put out fantastic product, If someone walked up to you and asked what Arcana Unearthed was about and what are the most interesting and fun aspects of it, what would you say?

Monte Cook:
I guess that's got to be the magic system, taken as a whole. It's very, very flexible, since people can adjust the power of their spells (heightening them or diminishing them) and you can put together spell slots of lower levels to cast higher level spells, and so on.

There's a full-page illustration by Sam Wood in the book, showing a bunch of adventurers fighting this weird monster. At first glance, you'd say "Cool D&D; scene." But then you look more closely. There's a litorian healing a fallen comrade. A mojh mage blade slicing through one of the beast's tentacles. A spryte magister blasting it with a spell. The warrior in the picture's not clad in heavy armor, and she's flashing around a light blade with incredible quickness--she's an unfettered. You see the differences, but you still understand what's going on. And it's an amazingly well done piece of art. It pretty much sums up what Arcana Unearthed is to me.


GamingReport:
Where do you see Arcana Unearthed going, will there be multiple worlds and what other types of sourcebooks are you thinking of doing?

Monte Cook:
Well, as you might know, we've given out licenses to Mystic Eye Games and Fiery Dragon Productions to do some Arcana Unearthed support products. Necromancer Games is going to be doing some as well. As we go forward, I think it would be very interesting if one of them published their own AU campaign setting.

As for us, we'll be putting out the Diamond Throne, which is a setting book that also has prestige classes, magic items and monsters tailored for AU and the DM's Screen/Player's Guide. Next year, we're going to do a large bestiary-style product for AU. Beyond that, we've got some interesting plans but they're too amorphous at this time.


GamingReport:
The miniature line for Arcana Unearthed looks promising, what other sets can we look forward too and will you be doing any other types of accessories?

Monte Cook:
Fiery Dragon is putting out an Arcana Unearthed counter collection. We've got some hopes for perhaps doing some other miniatures. And of course there's the AU DM's screen. That's all for the foreseeable future.


GamingReport:
Are there any plans for a novel line for Diamond Throne or Ptolus?

Monte Cook:
Currently, no. But it's an avenue we're keeping open.


GamingReport:
Can you give us any hints to what we can look forward to in the DM's Screen / Player's Guide and The Diamond Throne?

Monte Cook:
SCREEN
The screen is a three-paneled horizontal screen with some really cool artwork plus all the charts a DM needs to run the game. A separate double-sized reference card features player charts. The enclosed 32-page book has 11 illustrated character sheets -- one for each of the Arcana Unearthed classes, conversion guidelines for importing 3rd Edition and 3.5 Edition classes, spells, and other rules into this compatible system; and lots of character concepts and archetypes to get you started creating PCs and NPCs.

DIAMOND THRONE
This book gives an overview of this noble, giant-ruled land, and cool places like the Floating Forest, the Crystal Fields, and the Harrowdeep--the ancestral homeland of the faen. It provides new monsters like the militaristic chorrim and the magical shadow trolls. It presents prestige classes like the darkbond and the beast reaver, specifically tailored for the AU rules and the Diamond Throne setting. And it gives a bunch of new magic items, again, tailored for both the setting and the new rules.


GamingReport:
How do you feel about WotC doing an Unearthed Arcana book?

Monte Cook:
I don't know for a fact that they are.


GamingReport:
Do you have any other types of games in the works or on the back burner?

Monte Cook:
I have an idea for a traditional card game that I'm developing, but I don't think I'll try to publish it through Malhavoc--I don't want to dilute what Malhavoc Press is. I'd be much more interested in working with a traditional games publisher on that one.


GamingReport:
What will Malhavoc be up to for Gen-Con?

Monte Cook:
Lots. Here's a run down.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed: Design Diary Live (SEM00134)
Thursday, 7/24 -- 2:30 to 4:30 p.m.
This is sort of like the Design Diaries that you can find on my website, only live. People can ask questions, and I'll talk about what I did with AU and why I did it.

Meet Malhavoc Press (SEM00133)
Friday, 7/25 -- 2:30 to 4:30 p.m.
This will be Sue and I, as well as Bruce Cordell, Sean Reynolds and Skip Williams talking about upcoming products and answering questions. This would be a good time to stop by to say hi, get a book signed, or something like that.
Between Life and Death Challenge and Into the Harrowdeep This is a two-round tournament utilizing Arcana Unearthed. I'll be running the final round myself. I should note that there are other Arcana Unearthed games at the show as well.

Cry Havoc Boot Camp (SEM00132)
Saturday, 7/26 -- 10 a.m. to noon
Skip Williams will be discussing Cry Havoc -- the only d20 mass combat system created by one of the designers of 3rd Edition.

Wreak Havoc! (RPG01159)
Saturday, 7/26 -- 2:30 to 6:30 p.m.
Skip will be running four tables of Cry Havoc games. Miniatures provided.
I'll also be on a panel called Grill the Gurus, and Sue is running a daily workshop for people interested in becoming professional editors.


GamingReport:
d20 Call of Cthulhu is a great success, and the Shandler Chronicles are fantastic. Many folks would love to see more Cthulhu from you, are there any plans or possibilities at all to write a book for Chaosium and will there be anything else after the Shandler Chronicles?

Monte Cook:
I have no plans at the moment to do anything directly related to Cthulhu. I'd love to, though. It's something I really enjoy.


GamingReport:
As an author what do you prefer to do more gaming product or novels?

Monte Cook:
Gaming products are more fun, but fiction is somehow a bit more satisfying.


GamingReport:
If you could choose anything including licensed property in the world of gaming what would your dream project be?

Monte Cook:
Frankly, my dream would be to never work on a licensed product. They are a lot of headaches and hassle. That said, I suppose I'd choose either Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea or Steven R. Donaldon's the Land.


GamingReport:
What would you say is the best part of being in the gaming business and what is the worst?

Monte Cook:
That's tough. I guess the best part is simply doing what I love. My hobby is my business, and that's really cool. The worst part isn't even really all that bad, to be honest--it's that most people don't understand what I do for a living. Even after I explain it all, people say, "so this is with computers, right?" That's frustrating.


GamingReport:
Thanks for your time Mr. Cook it was great doing the interview with you.

Monte Cook:
Thank you.