Interview with Mr. Thomas Mastakoúris, creator of ‘Zodaná Épi’ (‘Living Epics’)
(2895 total words in this text)
(139 Reads) 
10-29-01
Posted by:Antonius
Imagine this as a story: You come from a small European country and happen to pass from the US in 1980, at the time the first role-playing games build up their customer base. Although initially they don’t appeal to you (‘what kind of games are these with books and dice instead of boards?’), you examine them and become enthralled with them. You return to your country and start involving yourself with these ‘role-playing games’ that few people seem to know. You create your own worlds in order to enjoy your time with your friends, but deep inside you the flame of creation burns higher: you want to create a product and put it in the market.
This is the story of Thomas Mastakoúris, the only Greek role-playing game creator up to now. His game, ‘Living Epics’, set in the age of Homeric Greece, has already won the acceptance of the Greek public as it has almost sold out its initial first print. And there are reasons for that indeed. Working unhindered and alone, without interventions of economic character in the substance of the game, Mr. Mastakoúris produced what he wanted to: a realistic game set in a game world as real as one can be; game play that balances the needs for action and constructive role-playing without tilting to the extremes of roll-playing or thespianism; a game that does not follow trends or the least common denominator, as he himself put it. His arsenal? Love for his hobby, sense of responsibility, no fear towards the overwhelming information needed but most of all, arduous research and play testing.
This interview was taken in two parts, a written and an oral one, during October 2001. Foreign publishers wishing to contact Mr. Mastakouris can do so at corvus@mail.hol.gr. ‘Living Epics’ can also be seen on the Greek web site www.aiolos.com.gr, under ‘games of strategy and fantasy’.
Mr. Mastakouris, Thomas, good afternoon and let’s start with an obvious question: ‘Zodaná Épi’ stands for ‘Living Epics’, the first role-playing game set in Homeric Greece. How come?
With this title I wanted to give the feeling of the game, which is the experience of living in «real life» (as real as the rules and the settings can make them) of the Homeric Epics that we only read about or watched in the cinema until now.
Which were the criteria for the choice of era? Why not the Classical Antiquity (5th century BC, the ‘Golden Century’ of Pericles and Athens) or the Hellenistic Period (the years following the death of Alexander the Great) for example?
I wanted an era of gods and heroes, of great deeds, monsters of the Old Chaos, voyages into the unknown, miracles, and the meddling of the gods in every day life. Classical or Hellenistic Period had not this «sense of wonder» we find in the Homeric Greece.
How ‘real’ is the game? How much of it is your tampering of the Greek mythology and how much is ‘true’?
The game stays 100% true to Greek mythology. That means, there are no made up monsters like the orcs, or creatures from other traditions, like a flying dragon. I use only what we find in the true Greek tradition (and believe me, that’s A LOT), but I encourage the players and the Rapsothós (the «GM») to expand this tradition in new ways, avoiding repeating the same labors as those of Hercules, or killing again the one and only Minotaur (although you can find some of his seed in one of the scenarios, along with a plausible explanation of their existence, and not as a new race of beings, of course). The other parts of the Greek tradition, like history, religion, way of living, way of fighting, are always true to the sources and the archaeological findings, although those are more than exciting enough by themselves.
Following the previous question, what kind of role-players will want to play ‘Zodaná Épi’? Will role-players enjoying ‘Hercules: the Legendary Journeys’ series for example, a series notorious for its inconsequentiality with the Greek mythos, find the game interesting?
I am not sure if TV viewers who like those series like Hercules and Xena will enjoy ‘Zodaná Épi’. The approach I take in the game is that of a mature person, not a young boy or girl who wants just some easy «hack and slash» fun. My game asks for involvement and deals with many issues -true life’s issues - that stay out of those juvenile approaches, like sexual passion, a true hero’s fears and dilemmas, the unavoidable death of the flesh. But to tell you the truth, I believe most young people are much more mature than adults believe them or want them to be, and I’m sure many of the teenagers will enjoy the game also.
Convince me to buy the game. What strong points does it have?
As I already said, the game has three strong points that come out as one:
a) Realistic setting (concerning the Homeric Greeks’ way of living, fighting, traveling, worshipping and, of course, dying), combined with
b) Realistic mythology, with archetypal gods, heroes and monsters that stayed alive in the world’s unconsciousness for 4.000 years, and played with
c) Some of the most realistic rules you’ll ever find in an RPG, without getting bogged down in useless and time-consuming minutiae.
Also, I should point out the really beautiful illustrations and the strong and original scenarios.
What kind of out-of-game reading material would you recommend to a ‘Zodaná Épi’ player in order to expand on the game?
Read, read and read any good book on Greek mythology and history. The best source would be, of course, Iliad and Odyssey themselves... Their wealth of ideas and settings are beyond words.
Let’s talk a bit about the system which, being a percentile based one, strongly reminds one of Chaosium’s system. What lead to this choice?
I was always a true follower of the percentile system. It’s realistic, and, I must say, much easier understood by a new player, or, I should say, by any player, new or veteran. Everybody in his/her everyday life thinks «I have a 50-50% chance of doing this» or something like this, so the new player can grasp the idea of the basic rules very easily.
It is interesting that within the game, what determines the character’s occupation is his father’s occupation. Would you like to expand a bit on that?
Of course. Its just the way of life in Homeric Greece and the same stands true for all over the world and all time periods until very recently. In periods with no public education, the only education a young one can have is through his parents. If the father is a hunter, the boy will be a hunter and learn the ways of the forest and the mountain. If he is a noble, the boy will learn the art of war and maybe rhetoric. If the father or mother was a healer, the teenager will know the basics of healing and botany. But please, bear in mind that this no «class system» from which none escapes. The new hero or heroine can learn ANYTHING and become ANYONE throughout the adventures, provided he/she will get the experience -with the help of some kind of teacher, or the hard way, through research and «field experience». Father’s occupation is just a way of starting the game with some much-needed experience, and helps to make the starting characters different enough and strong enough to be of use in a «team effort».
Was the choice of the system made today, would you go for the Open Gaming License (OGL) and d20? Or alternatively, are we to expect dual statistics for ‘Zodaná Épi’ in both their system and the d20 in the future?
I have a rather negative stance on the d20 issue. I find it too limiting and too all-leveling. Of course, if someone would tell me that he was ready to publish my game in a foreign language, but wanted it on a d20 system, I would do my best to accommodate the spirit of the game in that format... Yet, if I had to choose (for me, and, I believe for the would-be players) I would keep the percentile system.
Since we are at that, what do you think about the OGL?
I think I answered in that question with my last answer.
Do you believe that your product, being out of the OGL, is favored or not? Will you try something similar yourself?
I understand that most people like the easy way. If they know a game system, they want every game they play to have the same rules. That’s ok with some like-minded games, but it does not work well with what I have in mind-and that is what I call «fantasy realism». A true mortal hero can have the help of a patron god and a pair of flying sandals, but he cannot have more hit-points than two elephants, nor can he jump and fight for two hours (or ten minutes, by the way) without becoming exhausted. Nor can there be artificial levels or classes imposing themselves in a free, real world like the one ‘Living Épics’ are dealing with.
After the recent tragic events in the US, a rise in modern-day conspiracy-related games is speculated. Your comment? How can ‘Zodaná Épi’ put up with such a kind of competition?
‘Living Epics’ are dealing with basic human problems that are connected with the human psyche since the beginning of time: Courage, love, passion, cowardice, fear, avarice, nobility, and resolution. If you deal with those issues in your own soul, then you can face any adversity, ancient or current. And the game helps you in just this way: it helps you become a better human being, according to the ancient Greek archetype of the Hero, not the most recent one of the Martyr (the person who accepts everything his religion, government or way of life, throws at him, without questioning, without searching, without struggling).
Up to now ‘Zodaná Épi’ accessories deal with different places, like ancient Crete, ancient Egypt etc. Will we see supplements concerning different eras of Ancient Greece?
That depends... The Greek civilization of that time is a cosmopolitan one. The game’s heroes can travel all over the known world, as their ancient counterparts did. It also depends on my own inspiration and imagination while making up the new adventures.
Not all Game Masters have the time to create their own adventures. Your accessories include adventures, but will we see any ‘pure’ ones?
That also depends on the sales of the game. Unfortunately, the Greek target group is not that big, although the existing players are really supportive and enthusiastic.
The trend today dictates on-line add-ons for the already published products. Are we to see that with ‘Zodaná Épi’?
I repeat again that all the future add-ons depend on the sales. But it was my policy from the beginning that the basic RPG game must contain all, or almost all, a Game Master and his players need to play it.
Given the fact that the announcement list concerning future supplements is quite big, I would like to know if we are on schedule.
We try to, but there are some real time problems with the publishing house. Maybe we all need some more stimulus... Maybe from a foreign publishing house.
Which part of the game was the most interesting or easy to make? Similarly, what was the most boring or difficult?
Each part had its own challenge. I think the most interesting, but, in a strange way, easier for me, was the gods’ favor and intervention system, which I believe is highly original. The most difficult were the skills, where I had to try each mechanic and see if it works in real life... Like, how long must be the best jump an experienced hero can make without divine help? Finally I got down to today’s Olympic records and such stuff.
One of the good comments I heard for ‘Zodaná Épi’ was that the story is very well researched and that the mechanics work fluidly. How proud do you feel about this? Would you change something if you did it today?
No, I don’t think I would change a thing. This game is a creation of love and passion, and I think of it as my child. By now, it has a life of its own... breathing like a living being. I love it with all my heart, although I know well it may never reach the AD&D; or CoC games - not because it is inferior, but because it is a bit more demanding and does not have the publicity it should.
One of the bad comments I heard was that the information in the booklet is not that dense; that in some parts instead of providing more information you present your opinion on current affairs.
The two books of the rules cannot cover everything in detail, but they do cover almost everything in basic lines. I don’t want to «straightjacket» the Game Master or the players into thinking my thoughts and my ideas, but that means they all have to work a little harder to «live» in the game’s world. I don’t believe in many rules covering everything, I believe in good role-playing and imagination-and that, unfortunately, I can’t provide to everybody’s mind.
The best comment you heard about ‘Zodaná Épi’ up to now? The worst?
The best? That the game really captures the spirit of Homer and heroic ancient Greece, making the players savor it as never before.
The worst? That it’s a CoC rip-off (but that was from people who never even opened the rule books).
Actually are you currently running a campaign in ‘Zodaná Épi’? Have you ever?
Not now, but some times in the past. Unfortunately, I have to pass a big part of my free time teaching new players the basic rules, and that means I almost never have the time for a long lasting campaign. Oh, I wish someone would do this for me. I’m tired of being a Game Master, I want to be a player, for gods’ sake!
How well is the game going? What was the initial print run and how much success did ‘Zodaná Épi’ have up to now?
The initial print of 2000 boxes is almost sold, and that’s promising in a market that for the most part does not know what an RPG game is, and the veteran Greek RPG players have their own existing campaigns in play.
A question not frequently asked: is this whole enterprise paying back? Are you making any profit out of it?
I’m not getting rich out of it, nor was I expecting to be when I started it all. Yet, I must say I’m not wholly disappointed financially, nor did I found out that I made this whole project just for fun and beliefs, without some acknowledgement from the publishing world.
Is ‘Zodaná Épi’ a one-man project when it comes to the writing? Do you accept submissions from others? Are you cooperating with others?
Yes, ‘Zodaná Épi’ is «one man’s band» Its completely my own creation and took a good part of almost two years of my life. I wish the game would sell enough to make good submissions a viable suggestion for all. Until now, there is no point to it.
The company behind the game is ‘Aiolos’, an established publisher when it comes to books, but not having dealt with games of any kind before. What lead to this choice?
My very good cooperation with «Aiolos» and the knowledge, from the publisher’s part, that I was one of the older RPG players in Greece, who had played almost any existing RPG, and, also that I was a rather known fantasy writer of my own. The publisher wanted to bring something new to the Greek market, and made me the offer.
‘Zodaná Épi’ can be found today in Greek only. Will it get published in another language in the near future? Does a royalties (or any other) scheme with a foreign publisher exist?
We had no offer from a foreign publisher until now and unfortunately that is because they don’t even know «Zodaná Épi» do exist. Maybe your article and this interview will help a little. Anyone interested can come in touch with me in my e-mail address: corvus@mail.hol.gr
Can you talk a bit about yourself? The first time I saw your name somewhere was in a Call of Cthulhu anthology, as translator and commentator.
I’m a lawyer, a writer and a translator. My love for fantasy and science fiction propelled me to try my hand in writing, editing and translating fantasy, science fiction and horror, among other things, in a readership that was really thirsty for good, mature, moving stories. I edited and translated more than 50 anthologies and almost 100 other books (Herbert, Moorcock, Howard, Tolkien etc), wrote more than 35 published short stories, 5 books, countless articles, and of course, but you know that, an RPG game.
Are we to expect something different than ‘Zodaná Épi’ in the future when it comes to role-playing? Do you have any more ideas in mind?
Too many ideas, too little time... I try to follow the progress of the game industry and hope that this fine psychoanalysis we call RPG games will continue to exist, bringing people together and opening minds and hearts to a more broad view of the world.
Thomas, thank you very much for your time!
I thank you and I deeply appreciate your interest and your help. |
