HE'S SORT of an erudite Ed McMahon to her blustery Johnny Carson.

Sort of.

"What would you do if I didn't do your thinking?"

It's about midway through her morning radio show, and Mary Mason, the legendary talk-show host at WHAT (1340 AM), is on the air, ribbing the good-looking man seated at the production console on the other side of the glass.

Headphones in place, show producer Al Butler - known to thousands of Mason listeners as Albert - leans into his microphone. "It's more the eating I'm worried about," he says, referring to Mason's knack of bringing treats to the studio.

Most radio-talk show producers toil away in anonymity. They answer phones, book guests, run the board, cue the on-air talent. But they get little recognition short of a thank-you at the end of the program.

But thanks to his on-air banter with Mason, Butler is not obscure. Listeners know of him, ask about him, want to flirt with him. He adds insight, humor and a generational bridge for Mason, who has been on radio longer (45 years) than Butler's been alive (he turns 30 tomorrow).

"He's a bright young man, good to work with," Mason said, adding he can also be "a big jokester." Butler "was raised right. He's the kind of person anybody would want for a son or grandson."

Says Dave Warren, Butler's co-host on WHAT's "Acres of Diamonds": "Al is a very talented, funny guy. He's spontaneously funny. I don't think he can help himself the way he is."

Warren calls it "a testament to Mary's ingenuity to include Al in the conversation because of his open and friendly personality. He's not the type of person who demands attention. He commands attention [through his] ability to make people feel at ease and open up."

But Butler's on-air chemistry with Mason, who can at times be blunt and express exasperated impatience with callers, newsmakers and even Butler, doesn't surprise those who know him.

A huge sports fan who grew up in Germantown and South Philadelphia, attended Penn Charter and graduated from Hampton University, Butler gets along with people by using humor and intellect. That has been a cornerstone of his personality.

"Al can talk to a crackhead as easily as he can talk to a company head," said Dwayne Bright, his friend and roommate at Hampton who is a sales representative for Thomson Publishing in Cincinnati.

"When I meet people, it's a feeling-out process," Butler said. "For the most part, I'm gregarious, open-minded. I'd like to think I'm thoughtful," though at times he said, he can "overanalyze."

Butler is biracial. His late father, Cecil Chambers Butler, who was active in the civil rights movement and later became a minister, was black; his mother, Ruth Ennes Littrell, is a white Quaker. His parents divorced when he was 4. His father lived in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. Butler visited him regularly, spending summers in New York as a youth and seeing his father over spring and Christmas breaks while in college.

During his early years, Butler lived in Germantown with his mother. In his high school years, they moved to 22nd and Bainbridge streets in South Philadelphia.

He floated between two worlds, black and white, low-income and middle-class.

"Being able to fit in both situations equally taught me the skills I need," Butler said, recalling that his class when he graduated from Penn Charter in 1991 comprised 78 students, including 12 blacks. After graduation, he attended Hampton, a historically black college in Hampton, Va.

"I never had an identity crisis," said Butler, who recalls his mother sitting him down as a kid to watch "Eyes On the Prize," the PBS television series about the civil rights movement. "To me I was always a black person, only with a white mother."

As a kid, Butler said, he was "kind of nerdy." He regularly watched the "MacNeil/Lehrer Report." He remembers being intrigued at 5 years old as President Jimmy Carter announced the Camp David peace accords. He would eventually get so into the news that he rigged it so that when he turned on his bedroom light, the radio came on, tuned to KYW Newsradio.

Though he was into current events, he was still athletic enough to be "the first kid picked" for neighborhood games. He also collected trading cards and could instantly quote a ball player's statistics.

When he arrived at Hampton, he played spring football (defensive back) but quit to go into the broadcast booth. "I really wanted to be on the radio," said Butler, who once had aspirations to be an architect. "And I had a really pretty girlfriend."

He did sports color commentary for Hampton's station, WHOV-FM. "He was great," said Bright, who worked with Butler at the station. "He spoke with the experience of somebody you'd think was a professional football player."

Upon graduation in 1995, he covered Hampton football for the USA Today Web site and later returned to Hampton as women's sports information director. He worked for about a year at the University of Connecticut before coming back to Philly to get into radio.

He was already familiar with some folks at WHAT. He had worked with Nick Taliaferro and Bill Anderson, former radio hosts who are no longer at the station. And he had also interned there with former radio personality Georgie Woods, "The Guy with the Goods."

He became Mason's producer in January 2001. He was leery at first, not because he was reluctant to work with Mason, but because of the hours. Mason's show is 6 to 10 a.m. He usually gets to work about 5.

"I'm not a morning person," said Butler, who likes to spend nights going to movies and hanging out. "My challenge in the morning is not blowing up the clock at 4 a.m."

But yes, there is that perception that Mason doesn't "take no mess," a perception that Mason acknowledges does exist.

"I'm not difficult to get along with," Mason said. "I'm just a pro. I believe in doing things right." And when it comes to producers, "My requirements are stronger than most people."

In Butler she seems to have found the right mix: someone who can screen callers, gently get rid of the "Hi, Mary. How are the children" questions, and corral newsmakers.

"I trust him so much. I have the personal numbers of a lot of big people - and Albert has most of them," Mason said.

But things between the two aren't all nicey-nicey. They do disagree on occasion. "But that's what I also like about Albert," Mason said. "He has a strong mind."

"She has never said anything on the air that I've taken personally," Butler said, noting that sometimes Mason will say provocative things but wink at him through the glass, indicating she's not serious.

Saturday nights on "Acres of Diamonds" (6 to 10 p.m.) Butler, who started his third year on the show, has a greater role.

"I contribute in ways that I can be silly," Butler said. He's sarcastic, able to make what he calls "smart-ass remarks." He does impressions - a good Mike Tyson - and has developed one of James Nevels, chairman of the School Reform Commission. He also does voices for characters Tyrone, whose favorite word - and food - is "cake," Steven, a white guy, and D'Andre, described by Warren as "a black diva."

"Al adds a tremendous amount of reflection...on whatever subject we have to talk about," Warren said. "I'm a little bit better at interviewing people, but his comments or interjections are always on point whether the subject is serious or funny."

And Warren can hear the contribution Butler has made to Mason's show.

"I've been listening to Mary since my high school years," said Warren, 38. "You can [hear] the difference. Her show is a little bit...livelier now."

Butler is single. He figured by this time in his life he'd be married, with two kids and a house. "I have none of those things," he said with a laugh. His job and hours have kept serious relationships from developing. But if he does hook up, she "has to make more than I do," because radio doesn't pay much.

And radio is where Butler plans to stay. It may be in sports reporting, or with a syndicated show he and Warren would like to do someday.

"I once had dreams of an Arsenio Hall/Oprah hybrid," a show that mixed information and entertainment, he said.

But whatever he does, it'll be on radio. "I love the theater of the mind."